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FOMATPLAY: well first of all thank you Trine and sorry for all the times I will not pronounce your name properly TRINE: that's fine FOMATPLAY: sorry TRINE: I'm used to it FOMATPLAY: um yeah so as I told you just before um the aim of the this interview is to have a better understanding of what brings you here in this small village Rodes in south of France so um you are from Denmark TRINE: yes I am FOMATPLAY: do you mind um start starting by telling me a bit of where you come from where you grew up maybe or what your parents were doing TRINE: yeah I I grew up in uh a village in the Jutland on the east coast of Jutland in Denmark um that's the main island um linked to Germany just north of Germany FOMATPLAY: small village TRINE: small uh well a lot bigger than the Rodes around fifty fifteen thousand inhabitants more less FOMATPLAY: small town TRINE: yeah small town yeah and I lived there until the end of age of nineteen then I moved to another town like university town in Denmark where I studied for five six years uh went abroad to live in Zimbabwe for around ten months during my study and in Leiden in Holland where I studied for half a year moved back to Denmark moved to (uncertain) where I've been living since until we moved here to Rodes this summer FOMATPLAY: alright so if we if I I go back a bit um do you have brothers and sisters TRINE: yeah I have a older brother and a younger brother FOMATPLAY: they still live in Denmark TRINE: no my younger brother he has been uh he took his PhD in uh Paris uh and lived here for four years and then afterwards he moved to the United States where he's been living since uh he's uh professor uh now living in the Washington DC FOMATPLAY: a family of travelers TRINE: yeah but his wife who's uh from Barcelona so they met in Norway so and they're now living in the States they've been living there for the past twenty years or so FOMATPLAY: and uh your parents are TRINE: my my parents are now in Denmark but they bought this house together with my younger brother the one who studied in uh Paris they bought this house uh seventeen years ago and my parents lived here permanently for five years um then moved back to Denmark and then we bought the house from them uh this summer FOMATPLAY: alright um can I quickly ask you why did they initially come here TRINE: um well because my little brother he he loved uh uh France and before he got kids he thought that well I'm a professor he was a associate professor at that time I would like to live in France start doing my research three months a year during summertime work in the mountain so let me he proceed pursued my parents to buy this place so he had a small part of it and I said no way I'm never going to live in this small village so I I won't buy a part of the house FOMATPLAY: you said that TRINE: I said that so I've just met my husband at that time when they bought this house so I wasn't interested then we started coming here and fell in love with the the place the nature so we have been here quite a lot since the my parents bought the house and then my parents are getting old and we would like to take over so we bought it FOMATPLAY: but so but your parents always thought they would go back to Denmark by then TRINE: yeah yeah so they were just staying here for for a period of time they when my mom she retired they sold the house they sold the house in Denmark and couldn't find a new one so they ended up here for five years it just by chance and then they got a new house and then my my dad moved home my mum stayed for a while and then they have been travelling back and forth but but now they are eighty-two and eighty-five so travelling too much back and forth is tiring so now they stay in Denmark and we took over the house FOMATPLAY: where you never wanted to live TRINE: ya FOMATPLAY: uh I didn't clearly understand before you talk you told me about your studies right TRINE: ya I FOMATPLAY: I didn't get it I'm sorry TRINE: no er no I moved to er Aarhus the second largest town and then in my brother's university I studied law oh FOMATPLAY: oh yeah law TRINE: yeah and during my studies I went to er work at the Danish embassy in er Zimbabwe er it it was supposed to be a part of my study but it er turned out that I just went there to work at the embassy and stayed there because I I fell in love with the country yeah FOMATPLAY: for how long have you been there sorry uh TRINE: ten ten months I think nine or ten months it was back in ninety-six so before it went downhill it was okay when I was living there so it was a very nice country FOMATPLAY: was it your first time out of Europe TRINE: uh no no no and I've always wanted to go to Africa uh my dad he lived in Botswana before he met my mom so the real Africa south of uh Sahara has always been very appealing to me so FOMATPLAY: because he was telling you about TRINE: yeah I saw the pictures and I wanted to go there so so I went to live there for ten months and FOMATPLAY: and did did you get there the opportunity to cause you worked in the at the embassy TRINE: I worked at the embassy er for I think six or seven months er as a trainee so I didn't get paid er and then I was supposed to leave back for the university but I decided to study online distance because I liked to stay live in Zimbabwe I could go play golf I could go around the country doing hikes and oh it was very nice to be there FOMATPLAY: did you have also enough time to get in contact with locals and TRINE: yeah I did I travelled around for instance to South Africa with one of the locals from who was also working at the embassy we went to South Africa to Cape Town for I think ten days so yeah made friends with many of the locals FOMATPLAY: so after that period in Zimbabwe TRINE: then I went home a state in Denmark for two or three months I think it was then I went to Holland FOMATPLAY: uh huh TRINE: to study on Erasmus program for for a semester um yeah FOMATPLAY: so what language uh TRINE: that was uh in English yeah yeah FOMATPLAY: okay and so it was just a semester right TRINE: just a semester yeah and then I went back to Denmark finished up my studies and then I took my exam then I moved to Copenhagen and I've been staying in Copenhagen since then for almost twenty-five years FOMATPLAY: doing what work exactly TRINE: well first the the Danish immigration service uh and then at the university FOMATPLAY: okay both at the same time no then TRINE: then first and then first and then yeah FOMATPLAY: alright oh interesting is um well a lot of um the European questions are about um immigration these days so okay and and you arrived here in France you told me last summer TRINE: yeah FOMATPLAY: but you have been you had been coming already a few times right TRINE: yeah we've been here for the last sixteen years one month during summer and then a week during spring something like that so and what made you exactly decide to buy this house just because you you you knew and you told me you you were in love TRINE: yeah but FOMATPLAY: it's a big decision TRINE: yeah well uh we have been so fond of coming here we like the view uh the it's very quiet the nature that we can go for a walk just go out the doors uh and five minutes we are in the mountains uh it's close to the sea yeah close to the mountains so everything is here uh FOMATPLAY: but the boys they speak French TRINE: no they don't um just yeah just please please please we have been talking about buying the house for many years um to have it as a summer house and when we're getting older when the boys have left home so then we could go and stay here for five months during summer work here FOMATPLAY: more classical plan TRINE: yeah yeah but then the summer of the year before we when we were about to return home from vacation Lars Bo he said to me oh why didn't the Corona come earlier then we could go here with the kids and work on a distance and it would be nice and then I we went home and I said to the kids the same night I think well if it's okay with the mom and dad's job we'll be moving here next year then you can uh try to go in the French school to learn French the their dad is fluent in French and I think it's a big gift for for them uh and I was tired of going to work I turned fifty so we should try something new so so we decided if it would be possible for for Lars Bo and me to work on a distance we would try that for a year FOMATPLAY: and the boys were were okay they were like TRINE: uh Frederick the oldest one said it was okay from the beginning the small one he said no I'm staying at home uh I'll be living in our house you can live without me but uh he he grew into the idea and they have been quite fond of it since we arrived it's hard it's very difficult for them at school but so I think it'll be easier FOMATPLAY: so what um how do you live the way um you were telling me earlier that uh you think the the ways foreigners are helped um in terms of like learning French is quite good how um what's happening for you in this case or how are your kids going to learn French what help do they get at school or you from your side TRINE: well well before we left we hired a young French boy who was living in Denmark uh going to high school he came once a week just to start teaching them French when we moved here I got uh we were trying to find a teacher but uh during summertime it was not a chance and there's no summer school for kids at that age there was only one close to Argelès-sur-Mer but very expensive and with a lot of English speaking uh persons we were afraid that they were going to speak English instead of French so I found a Danish woman who was working with them a couple of hours per week online and then they started in school in the beginning of September in the part where they have this special program for foreigner so they are in a normal class but Andreas I think he has around eight hours per week where he's removed when they when his class have French or science so he is in this special class where there's a teacher trying to learn them French FOMATPLAY: and he likes it he he he finds it's okay and efficient TRINE: yeah yeah FOMATPLAY: so he's in primary your youngest right TRINE: yeah but uh and he's uh has a quite a good ear for the language uh and uh Frederick he's he's really hardworking so he's learning it the hard way FOMATPLAY: but they were both both bilingual already with English right TRINE: yeah FOMATPLAY: maybe a third language also TRINE: well they started on German when they came here uh and that's also so yeah they are now speaking in Danish English French and German FOMATPLAY: and you yourself you were telling me that you're also taking courses uh TRINE: yeah I have had quite a few years of French but it was in high school and many years ago but I have to I understand more and more French and I can read it but speaking it that's that's the hard FOMATPLAY: and you were telling me earlier you are participating to TRINE: yeah um I have a once a week online lesson with the the woman and then my crew touch the boys and then I go to the school Gustave Violet FOMATPLAY: oh yeah TRINE: yeah once a week FOMATPLAY: *c'est ça* TRINE: uh two lessons every Wednesday morning FOMATPLAY: with other parents TRINE: with other parents from yeah Sri Lanka Ireland Nigeria and what is it called Ukraine no some of the Russian states uh Georgia I think it's called so that that's quite fun FOMATPLAY: did did it I don't know maybe you made some new friends among those people or TRINE: well not not yet it's only I think I've been there four times FOMATPLAY: oh yeah TRINE: so FOMATPLAY: and you must feel really well do you feel totally integrated to Rodes TRINE: not at all I I know the city and there we have some very nice neighbours uh there's a couple with a boy just living next to us they speak English so I can talk to them there are some new neighbors over there a young couple they have a dog so we meet with the dog and say hi and then there's an uh he's alone now but there's an old couple who's been living here uh all the time she was uh born here the woman she she died two years ago um they have been very warm and welcoming also to my parents but otherwise it's very difficult I think it's the same as in Denmark you don't meet people uh or you don't get to know people unless you're meeting around kids or something like that so as some people I I greet uh at the village but I don't expect to find some friends here but that's okay us FOMATPLAY: you're too busy working for now TRINE: yeah and I'm not that outgoing my husband is more outgoing than I am so I let him do the talking also because it's much easier for him because he speaks French FOMATPLAY: I have a just a quick question you bring your your boys to school with the car right TRINE: no FOMATPLAY: do they take the bus TRINE: they take the bus FOMATPLAY: because I met a few young guys like I was looking for your house earlier TRINE : yeah FOMATPLAY: and um so I asked them um where was your house and the name of your family the Bo family and two young Danish taking the the the boy the the school with you the the bus with you they they didn't have any idea so I but maybe it's other generation or other times or TRINE: yeah and not everybody most of the kids living here they are going to school at Ille FOMATPLAY: that's why TRINE: so they take a different bus that's I think uh there are two or three other kids in Rodes going to uh Gustave Violet FOMATPLAY: okay TRINE: and the older ones are going to the *lycée* so FOMATPLAY: hmm TRINE: it depends on who you're asking FOMATPLAY: I understand TRINE: and this is the old part of the town so there are not many kids around here they're living closer to the main road in in the new houses FOMATPLAY: but you know still as a small town I would have expected like you know if two young new comers are here of course you know who they are TRINE: yeah there is no reason TRINE: yeah otherwise they have been seeing us for they have seen the kids since they have been newborn so we've been here twice almost every year so FOMATPLAY: yeah they should have known and so are they are they happy with the college here the the Gustave Violet TRINE: yeah yeah yeah FOMATPLAY: the oldest TRINE: they prefer they prefer the college of uh here FOMATPLAY: than the Denmark system TRINE: compared Denmark yeah and I have no idea why because in Denmark they meet at eight o'clock and we live just across the school so they leave the house five minutes before eight o'clock here they have to leave the house five to seven in Denmark the school is finished around between two and three thirty here it's not finished until four or five and then they have sport they are playing football both at the school and at the club the one at at Prades and the other one at Ille and then during lunch time so they yeah normally we will pick them up Monday and Tuesday so they'll be home around seven um so it's a very long day and tons of homework in Denmark they don't have homework in the small classes um and they are not used to using the last name for for the teacher and then we say you and on first name uh also with the teachers they have no idea what the last name is FOMATPLAY in Denmark TRINE: yeah no yeah er in France they have to rise when the teacher are answering er the classroom they have a lot of tests er FOMATPLAY: all the time TRINE: but they like it they prefer (uncertain) the teachers are more uh uh better trained and more uh what do you say into the stuff are more engaged in the FOMATPLAY: teaching TRINE: yeah they they said that so FOMATPLAY: maybe it's just the excitement of the beginning of having something new or TRINE: well well FOMAPLAY: that's what they say when you ask them right TRINE: yeah uh and we're not surprised that uh Frederick because he likes to put things in boxes and know exactly what to do the small one is nothing like that he's breaking all the rules and but he still prefers it you know FOMATPLAY: well that's cool TRINE: yeah FOMATPLAY: maybe also the distance makes them feel a little bit more autonomous the house is too close from the school it's like almost the same world at least they TRINE: no FOMATPLAY: not even that TRINE: no no I don't know but but after we stayed here I've been living here for a couple of months they came and asked if we like it here can we stay another year well now they have just been back to Denmark during Christmas and say well well we are looking forward to going home but that's to see their friends FOMATPLAY: yeah so you are planning to stay here TRINE: I would like to because I'm not fluent in French neither are the boys and well I like it here FOMATPLAY: but you're not sure right TRINE: no it depends on our works if they will let us stay FOMATPLAY: do you have to go often to like meetings and stuff like that TRINE: no most of the time I can do it on zoom uh I have an agreement that I return every second month or so but FOMATPLAY: you don't really have to TRINE: no I've been back in them like uh I think three times since we moved here but that's uh I've been home for uh teaching and for parties uh so compared it with work FOMATPLAY: so you're you're not sure that you will stay here like many years but that's TRINE: no no because the house is too small yes with the two boys they they don't have their separate rooms and as they grew older they need their own room and well at least I know my work needs me at home so it's I'm the first one who has been allowed to work from a distance all the time unless you are a academic FOMATPLAY: so all the family is still in a big adventure kind of TRINE: yeah and I'm so glad that we did it we we really like it here the the weekdays they are like at home but the weekends and still we we don't have this kind of nature and then my so we really FOMATPLAY: even in the countryside I mean TRINE: no we are living in in Copenhagen FOMATPLAY: you could have TRINE: we're in the capital FOMATPLAY: you could have gone to the countryside in Denmark and find a TRINE: yeah but FOMATPLAY: a romantic town TRINE : there are no there are no mountains in Denmark FOMATPLAY: I understand I love mountains I need mountains TRINE : too it's not the same FOMATPLAY: and so you're you're planning to improve your French somehow TRINE: yes I am FOMATPLAY: how are you how are you going to do that cause you told me you're working TRINE: well I FOMATPLAY: all day by yourself TRINE: yeah but it's still FOMATPLAY: you're like going out pretty much by yourself as well TRINE: yeah but still practice we are I'm trying to listen to French uh podcast uh watching uh French uh movies uh radio and trying to read uh as well and preparing small sentence before I'm going out with the dog if I'm I meet some neighbours so I can practice uh FOMATPLAY: but you're not interacting a lot with TRINE: no FOMATPLAY: gosh I'm sorry TRINE: no it's no problem FOMATPLAY: so mm because you don't interact a lot of with a lot of the people around here did you ever um could you could you still feel that there was no problem for you being here I mean the way the because the people of the village already knew your parents right but you didn't never felt any kind of I don't know racism or TRINE: um no FOMATPLAY: fear or I don't know any kind of TRINE: no no FOMATPLAY: distance TRINE: well well there is a distance but it would be exactly the same if I moved to a small village in Denmark so I don't see it as FOMATPLAY: as particular TRINE: no it's just that I'm not from here and of course I'm not speaking French so that is but as I said the neighbours just around here they are very very nice and so no problem at all FOMATPLAY: I can never ask all of the questions that's always different so you told me earlier you worked for uh immigration uh may I ask you what's your position um towards uh immigration around and European Union you you don't TRINE: well I think it's a it's a FOMATPLAY: it's a big big TRINE: yeah and it's difficult to answer because refugees well I'm much into refugees we have to help migration without any limits no I think Europe would disappeared if everybody came here but we are lacking the working people uh in Europe uh and well there has to be some rules I think because working at the Danish Immigration Service of course I've seen fraud people just marrying to come to Denmark but I've also seen so many sad cases where people have been married out of love or really wanted to adopt a child or something like that where where we had to reject uh uh where it's really very difficult I think to to reject to let the people moving let reject them not letting them into Denmark so FOMATPLAY: how was the balance you would say more of the people who wanted to come to Denmark there it was like what the (uncertain) "légitime" legitimate TRINE: yeah most of the people came from a legitimate cause I would say it was only a very few FOMATPLAY: very few TRINE: who came by the the unlegal way uh trying to fraud the way uh into Denmark FOMATPLAY: do do you think this balance is pretty much the same for all the countries like most of the demands are legitimate or not TRINE: no we can see compared to Italy or to France well there are not that many migrants in in Denmark um and I can see there are a lot bigger issues and problems in France Italy Spain than we have in Denmark in Denmark there's not that bigger problem FOMATPLAY: because it's more controlled or because less people want to go to Denmark TRINE: less people want to go to Denmark and we are not like France we have not been a colony here FOMATPLAY: that's the point here TRINE: yeah FOMATPLAY: after this little time living in France do you already feel I don't know because you've been living overseas already right in Botswana for ten months and in Holland do you feel there's something different about France um I don't know how to say exactly um how does the fact of living in France affected maybe your personality or your values or or or not maybe compared to the other places where you have been before TRINE: well Africa was er totally out of line compared to anything else er France I think it's much like living in Denmark there's a lot more bureaucracy in French and well uh the system is very heavy uh compared to Denmark um where everything is online and the system are speaking together when I move my address all the system knows that I've been moving in France I have to go write my name on a piece of paper in the municipality and go to the tax service in in Prades and go to the bank and but still it's I think it's much like them like FOMATPLAY: in terms I mean you you haven't felt any cultural shock here all this kind of thing no it's very much TRINE: I I have to be more patient here but that's it did you miss anything from Denmark that is TRINE: miss my friends uh I think that's it and to the boys how do they speak about Denmark now that they're here they just adapt or TRINE: yeah I think but there are some things they prefer in uh uh in French and then there are some things they prefer in (uncertain) FOMATPLAY: they're not they're not really expressing TRINE: no no no no no no now they're living here and that's the way it is so they adapted very fast so we told we said earlier you're all in an adventure so I cannot really ask you what are what your plans are because you're not what are the different options TRINE: well I thought we stay here two years instead of one uh we'll go back as planned this summer uh to live in Denmark again and then come here as keep this as our second home FOMATPLAY: that's Plan one and Plan two would TRINE: is to stay here for another year but it would be just for another year not FOMATPLAY: Plan three finding another house in Rodes maybe TRINE! no no because we like this house because well it's totally renovated by my parents so we don't have to do a lot of things and we have been renovating our house in Copenhagen for the last ten years so we are done by renovating uh and when it's just the two of us then this house is perfect uh for us and we can leave it close it and not be worried about how it's going when we're not here because we are so far away when we're in Copenhagen so it's perfect and I think it's the best spot ever we can find here FOMATPLAY: so maybe you'll you the Plan C would be just go back in Denmark let the kids grow and then maybe retire here in a peaceful and just having a this house a safety TRINE: yeah yeah FOMATPLAY: emergency place TRINE: yeah and when the kids grow older we can go here without the kids and work for four months or so from here and then go back again so and it's getting warm and then I can stay here fOMATPLAY: and when it gets warm here TRINE: yeah FOMATPLAY: that's the best part TRINE: the foam has been perfect here it's been quite amazing until the yeah mid November FOMATPLAY: yeah TRINE: it's been perfect and it's been dark and cold and rainy in Denmark FOMATPLAY: did do you sometimes get to travel uh in other places in Europe TRINE: yeah well we haven't been travelling that much around Europe since we got the kids well that's not true because we we have our camping wagon staying here in Rodes so when we come here during summertime we go around for for a week or two and then normally we have been travelling to Norway for skiing but we'll stay here of course this year going to the Alps for skiing FOMATPLAY: is it a campervan you put behind or is it a proper TRINE: no it's a behind the FOMATPLAY: behind TRINE: the the car yeah the one you have to be cautious on the road yeah TRINE: but it's a very small one it's it's my parents so it's just for two persons but so the kids are sleeping in the tent outside but it's so small so we can go in every mountains with it so we like that so we have been going around in France and in Spain this summer we went to Italy FOMATPLAY: and during those travels do you do you think about the fact that um you can do all this thanks to freedom of movement within Europe is it or you just forget about it and TRINE: I think I just forget about it because I've been as a kid we had a tent (uncertain) a caravan as well so we have been always travelling a lot around Europe I think I've seen most of Europe but with a visa that time before TRINE: well not yeah we had to when we went to Poland and the Czechoslovakia Yougoslavia we we had a visa uh but otherwise England Germany Holland France Spain Italy um and the move uh a free movement of in Europe I'm not so convinced about that anymore because moving from Denmark to France if I've known how much trouble or how much paperwork we have to do and it's not because of French uh no FOMATPLAY: not really TRINE: no no it's also in Denmark uh we had to supply uh to apply for social security in Denmark the tax between Denmark and France we had no idea what we are going to pay in taxes if we are going to pay tax in Denmark and in France as well um there are so many paperwork so we have to think about insurance renting out the house social security working from home in France and compared to the Danish legislation so it would have been the same if we moved to Germany FOMATPLAY: but it's even heavier because it's just for a year or two I believe that if you were asking for a permanent residency and you were be telling uh it's okay it's once let's do and TRINE: yeah yeah yeah FOMATPLAY: get it sorted after TRINE: yeah yeah and if we moved on to the jobs to France it would be another matter but working from for Danish company yeah FOMATPLAY: that's the point also TRINE: working here long distance yeah FOMATPLAY: because uh would you be willing to find the same job here in France TRINE: yeah FOMATPLAY: yeah TRINE: yeah FOMATPLAY: even if the the wage is not really the same or TRINE: well it it depends uh what they would pay me but yes I I I wouldn't mind uh FOMATPLAY: so it's just that you didn't have the opportunity you're already settled there TRINE: but I would never get get a job like this uh like my job uh here because I'm into Danish law and the French law is completely different it's easier for my husband because he's in engineering it's the same if you're in then (uncertain) in French FOMATPLAY: what did you exactly TRINE: sorry FOMATPLAY: what do you do exactly TRINE: well I have no idea er er as as I said I'm working at the HR department at the university of Copenhagen er right now we are trying to make a new organisation where I'm part of what do we have to do trying to get this organization uh and all the different things that you have to speak to the union representative at the workplace we are going to fire some people because we have to be less people doing the same amount of work um making policy about harassment um what do you do if a student or a teacher is being harassed um FOMATPLAY: so it's quite diverse TRINE: yeah yes FOMATPLAY: depends on what's on the fire TRINE: yeah FOMATPLAY: so it's never boring as well TRINE: never boring and the the the academia people they are they are kind of their own species never stop to amaze me so never I've been working there for almost fifteen years and I really like it never boring FOMATPLAY: um I got maybe some short questions for the end we call it short questions I didn't go through definition of freedom of movement in one sentence TRINE: easy it's uh it should be easy FOMATPLAY: definition of yourself but not in one sentence you can take more TRINE: what have no idea FOMATPLAY: it's hard to TRINE: I have no idea FOMATPLAY: you wouldn't know how to define if if you cannot define yourself maybe um what would Lars say TRINE: I think he would say I'm a perfectionist with in some areas uh my kids would say I'm very boring except when I when I'm together with my friends then I can smile and make jokes FOMATPLAY: your friends would say what TRINE: they'd say I'm quite funny and easy going FOMATPLAY: and your mother TRINE: yeah she you would say a bit of a temper not easy to satisfy uh very social FOMATPLAY: and is there something you know this interview was very short and of course we couldn't go through all the complexity and different aspects of your life it's just few elements so is there anything from your journey um that you think uh people who will listen to you or should recall of you maybe a an important what's the most important element um in the fact that you have been uh working overseas and then moving here and raising your kids for a year in another country TRINE: well that you should do what you think that makes you happy and do it while you can before it's too late FOMATPLAY: that's beautiful thank you very much TRINE: you're welcome FOMATPLAY: thank you