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FOMATPLAY okay so thank you Claudio for joining the project. the first question I want to ask you is to tell us something about your journey. so what brought you here? what prompted your decision to move to Italy? CLAUDIO yes. what prompted my decision? I quit my job in Germany and I left the university in 2021. I worked as, like, as a copywriter lecturer and kind of coach and actually I didn't like the job anymore; and remembered the times at university well, especially my time in Italy in 2015 during my ERASMUS. I saw the opportunity; like, I saw the um the job placement online for Napoli and I thought well that's s right. if it works out okay, if not also okay. FOMATPLAY huh and how's your experience going? Do you like the city evironment in Naples? CLAUDIO yeah. I like it but I also thought it was... in the beginning different from my Bologna term because it was hard to find an aparment. I spent six weeks in B&Bs and going around the city trying to find an apartment with my colleagues. so the beginning was more stressful than my staying in Bologna. FOMATPLAY and how are these two cities different from one another? CLAUDIO I think Napoli is more... somehow more intense. there's maybe a lot of tourists or probably... a lot of tourists and also a lot of traffic. yeah um Bologna, Bologna was somewhat easier because I found an apartment right away. I at... the right way... um and you right away know how things work. probably um here was more difficult, you know. FOMATPLAY and can you tell us more about your ERASMUS experience? how was it for you to leave Germany as a as a student? CLAUDIO yes it was... it was great um because I... At the beginning, when I began my studies in 2013 I, like, I wanted to to learn another foreign language; I thought okay let's do Italian because I have an Italian name. I don't have Italian family but... I thought well Italian; and I took courses of the language after years of studying and touring. Then I went to Bologna so it was... yeah, it was like a plan came came true. FOMATPLAY and what did you-, what else did you like about Bologna? and... CALUDIO It was more... the biggest difference, I think, was the life of... student life is different; like students studying, living more on the streets, hanging out on the streets, to like... before coming to Bologna I didn't think coffee. It was hard to avoid coffee and it was nice to have all those that's called "palazzi" yeah. studying like in this in this oldest of Europe, it was... FOMATPLAY what else do you enjoy about the Italian culture as a whole? CLAUDIO for example I was really... there was a moment here in Napoli I really liked, like... um in Germany you don't have; you don't have a relation to at least a relation to the people who who um run the university buildings, or like to, to open and close the doors and stuff. And Napoli it seems like in every palazzo there's 1000, like, Guardians that are opening and closing. and my colleagues, they have really good relationships with especially one person. and they exchanged wine bottles from their huses and because the person, he has said, he has his own Vineyard so it was... that's... that was interesting for me. like a more direct approach, probably. and also, like... after I found an apartment I went to the bar next to it, near to it, and I think that it was really friendly; and friendly happens here. like it's hard for me or I don't understand that, I'm telling you, but... um they spoke Italian to me and I couldn't understand them, and we exchanged some words and now if I go there... yeah it's like, they have a smile for me. FOMATPLAY is there anything that you dislike about the Italian culture or about the environment you are in? CALUDIO hmm I I think as as a... that's probably my... some of my German um mentality. I... or, in this I I found out that I'm really German because I, I like it when I know what to expect and for example um... and for having the courses; I didn't know if they are ; like if they have this academic 15 minutes or not. and so I didn't know when to be there exactly; At the course. that's something I just had to adapt to. and I would like to know to the beginning but... yeah. that's... FOMATPLAY is there anything else you cannot really put up with in terms of values, in terms of the attitudes, in terms of behaviors mindset? CLAUDIO well I don't like the... lik, I'm a person who really likes to ride a bike and I really like to think... where I'm pro ecologic and stuff so... I I don't like this huge traffic, I don't like the clacksons but... I knew before coming to Napoli that the traffic here is different. FOMATPLAY hmm. okay. and did you experience any hostility while being here? did you feel that people maybe were treating you in a different way or not really? CLAUDIO hmm. I don't think so, no. um well it's... I don't think so. it's, like; if I... when I get the chance and can speak to people; like, I haven't experienced facility and maybe it's because, because I speak the language, so it's... maybe I'm, in the eyes of the local people, not a typical tourist. I don't know. FOMATPLAY How do you feel when you speak the language? do you feel that, that makes a, like, a difference in terms of how people perceive you or? CLAUDIO I think so. it makes a difference. well if I... in Germany when when I met um people from other countries and they, they try to speak German and they spoke German, I mean... it's a different level of understanding and, and it's um... I've also met people in Germany who studied there for a long time or did their PhD and didn't bother to to learn the language. I think that's the difference between, difference between those persons and persons who try to learn a language; they... and it's easier to, to become friends with them and yeah just to talk about stuff. yeah. FOMATPLAY alright. and um do you feel that your German accent um has an impact on how people perceive you or? CLAUDIO definitely. if I'm correct um, like... Near my apartment uh there are some shops, some stores; and if I'm correct um they, they know that I'm um um stranger; oh I don't know if it's true but probably they they um they make um the local people pay less. but that's my at least once I thought okay I wouldn't have paid this much of them as an Italian. FOMATPLAY and how do you feel when you speak Italian? CLAUDIO I feel good. it makes me... yes it's nice to... also nice to leave just this um... somehow to leave the my my German identity somehow behind; or of course not totally but it's a good feeling to just communicate in a different language. FOMATPLAY speaking about identity; how would you describe your identity? your personal identity or do you feel you have a like a national identity? CLAUDIO um. well I, I think it really depends on the circumstances. like when I'm... for example, the story that I expected to know when exactly the course starts; this I knew, ok. maybe like the stereotype of the really German correctness, this is true. and in that moment I felt really German. But... in my time living in Germany, when I lived in Germany, I sudied in Germany... it wasn't a big thing for me; like it was more thinking about political identity; like this ecological thinking or um, yeah... confronting myself with the different political um actors. or like I I I had an uh my identity was more like "I'm a-, I'm a, ecological thinker. A left, left wing person rather than a German". FOMATPLAY can you tell us more about this identity you're describing? CLAUDIO yes. it was... Tubingen has a.... it's a small town; like it has 90,000 inhabitants; but 30,000 students. like I've lived there for 10 years. also and as a really kind of an alternative um um and.... I think that was, that was part of my identity; like I worked with France and little bike repair shop for refugees and... yeah it was like these, these connections and I had a lot of friends where I lived in. in a project, living project, where there were children and old people and um the purpose of the project was to to give um like property, but an apartment or a flat room to the cheapest price possible. so yeah I think my identity was created by doing those things. FOMATPLAY nice. and what else does your Germanness comprise? you mentioned already preciseness but what else does your...? CLAUDIO like, as a... becoming an historian or like studying history; that's also another point I really recognize to you in Italy. this conflict Israel Gaza and this, yeah... this war, this terrible war happening... as a German like with the responsibility for the Holocaust that's, that's definitely a big part of my identity. FOMATPLAY can you tell us more about these feelings that you have of the conflict and responsibility? CLAUDIO um, yeah. first um yeah. I hear you in Napoli, for example, the Orientale was occupied in support of Palestinian and uh yes... I, I I went there one evening and suggested; inform me and um and I I think it's uh it's really important to, to criticize what what's happening there; what, what Israel is doing but at the same time well... now now in January and this was, I think, in November or October. the occupation of the Orientale. and yeah it was, it was a difficult um to balance this, this feeling of responsibility for the Holocaust and this like absolute support for Israel with the um.... yeah with the ongoing attacks. FOMATPLAY okay. Do you feel that this, is in a way, part of the German identity? CALUDIO I think so, yes. FOMATPLAY do you think this is something that you share as a collective in Germany still today? This a sense of responsibility towards...? CALUDIO Yes I think so. well and and after the attacks of October the 7th by the Hamas there was in Germany a lot of um... a lot of anti-Semitic crimes; so this was like the... you could see that all those prejudices and all the hate of the Jews came up again so... yeah, it's definitely... yeah, part of the German identity and, well... not only prejudices, but definitely after the holocaust the responsibility for making sure that it doesn't happen again. FOMATPLAY hmm. and uh. do you also feel you have a European identity? if so how would you describe it? CLAUDIO that's... yeah. hmm. I don't know if I have a European identity or maybe it's because I have never um... I, I, I, I was born in 1992 and I think uh... I can't remember a time when there was controlling at the borders, for example. I'm sure when, when it was introduced that... for example, a couple of years ago I traveled to the Balcans and experienced this controlling at the borders; and maybe that was a moment when I realized "okay that's not nothing what I experienced in the European Union" and maybe again this, like, but if I've seen and the other... how it can be different. I felt okay. I'm here too. FOMATPLAY so by contrast? CLAUDIO by contrast, yeah. thanks. by contrast yeah. but still um I don't know. In my everyday life... I feel like... because there are a lot of internationals um I felt like okay I have um.. I have don't have an international identity not an European identity, but it's part of my life. hmm yeah FOMATPLAY and do you feel in any way connected to Europe on some other level? CLAUDIO yeah, I feel now that I remember my ERASMUS in Bologna. of course I, I met a lot of other European ERASMUS students. um it's not like I have.... I still contact them but those moments are of this experience to... to study together like... to be together with this group of ERASMUS students for one semester. I think that was the European experience. FOMATPLAY in what way? CLAUDIO in the way that... yeah somehow we... in my, in my group there were like Germans of course, there were Belgians, French people, uh Luxembourg and Spanish; and so it was nice to see that our group, yeah, just gets along. that we probably, we have similar values; we could get along in a great way, yeah. FOMATPLAY and uh what-, if you think about Europe what other values or what values would you attach to it? CLAUDIO well... sadly the first thing that comes in my mind is this... in german we say [ Europa], Europe as an entity which has strict borders, which builds-, is beginning to build walls and all the people dying in the middle of the sea. actually, that's the first thing that comes in mind for me. but, like, having the ERASMUS experience it's of course free borders; it's um it's also... well it's the the euro, the the coin, the the money. um yeah like these, these values they are probably taken for granted, like well, democracy, free speech... but again all like... a couple of weeks ago in Germany there was an important revelation about the right wing network that plans or who thought about expelling Germans with migration backgrounds and so... ADF, yes. and so... and now there is this huge... there are a lot of demonstrations all over, everywhere in Germany. the people make clear we don't want those, these ideas. we don't stand for these ideas. and that's probably, again, by by contrast. seeing um there are those plans to uh expel Germans who, who don't have the white skin because... that's, for me... like that's not, that's not Germany. that's also... European Union was certainly found as an answer to war; as an answer to, to fighting against each other. FOMATPLAY so would you say that the European values are in danger somehow or? CLAUDIO yes, I think so. um like seeing um... seeing the rise of uh right wing parties. in Germany there is AfD and in France there is . and they have, like a... it's like in Italy you have Giorgia Meloni. and I think they are really endangered and um... and it's it's, it's hard to, like... I, I I grew up in democracy, I am not used to anything else. and if you take things for granted maybe we don't take them too seriously but I think we can see now in Europe that it's... there are really rising forces fighting. FOMATPLAY um speaking of which, um do you remember anything about Brexit? or how did you live or perceive that historical moment? CLAUDIO I perceived it as... actually I thought are really...I have to find the right words. but if they, I mean... if they are ready to believe those stupid stuff, at this stupid stuff about what Nigel Farage, I think was his name... I don't know but there was a guy who was really... pays to the European Union and bla bla bla. and I thought, I mean, if they are really so um crazy to believe this guy well.... haha be it, be it like this. and um and I didn't... well that that was before Trump and that was before like the rise of the of the rise of um before I perceived in Germany the right wing parties. that's really dangerous. so probably I was naive yeah. FOMATPLAY yeah. So did it affect you in some way? the fact of um... CLAUDIO I don't think so. like, it was-, I knew that or... at this time I had a friend and she um started to buy in Britain for some time and she was worried whether she could return or if it would be still possible in the future. um but I've never actually been to Britain so I don't know much about the country and um... yeah but at this time, besides this story didn't affect me a lot. FOMATPLAY okay. going back to European rights, or imagine freedom of speech. what about freedom of movement? what do you think about it? and how have you experienced it so far? CLAUDIO um yeah. I I think it's it's a really great achievement. it's nice to um... for example, I like like, I work this little bike repair shop and I like riding with a backpack and two three times I just took the train to to which is near the French border, and we just took the bike and went to France. like it's, it's a great feeling to just have open borders. and at the same time it's.. well it's sad that it's only possible for people like me; if you take a look at the borders, at the outside of your European Union, it's like... I can pass, but others can't get in. so, that's the other side. FOMATPLAY what was your experience by the way? what was the experience of working with refugees for you? CLAUDIO yeah it was, it was uh like uh during the time when... a lot of; 2015; and a lot of people came to Germany. I was actually in Bologna so from the news and from France. and then being back too many to 2016 and working with those refugees. it was, yeah, it was great experience. I wouldn't say that we... that was that was a when we had for some time one... um what was his name? he came from Syria and he loved bikes and he just was part of our team; like he became part of our team. that was great so he couldn't stop doing that. we speak the language and we um lot of stuff from him. he taught us stuff, we, we teach, taught him stuff. um. yes and and then um dealing with the invasion in Ukraine in 2022; there came a lot of Ukrainians to our bike, bike repair shop. and yeah it was uh... also I think it was um our our spots on our repair little repair thing was also a spot for them to to go. like we are open once once a week and from like very soon there were similar faces, like they.... we we recognize that those people, they also want some, some connections; some, some, some people they know. and so it was nice to see them coming to our place and just have a little chat and prepare their bikes. FOMATPLAY how active are you in Naples, socially active? CLAUDIO not so much because Saturday... I have back problems. that's because I like... I would love to be more active, I would love to... yeah, to travel around or go to Pompei; so far I haven't been to Pompei; and well but I'm trying to do some some stuff. um and I just ordered some shoes for climbing and there... I think there's this uh social center "Je So Pazz" uh huh something... they have this little climbing hall and is good for the back so... yeah thanks. FOMATPLAY and how's your social life in Naples? CLAUDIO yeah my social life is... well I I know for coincidence in Tubingen I met two friends; or now we are friends; and they are from Naples and so... about one she's still back in Tubigen and the other friend she is from Caserta and so I had already like small connection to Naples. and now we are eight persons in our program, PhD program and we do stuff together, we... cool group FOMATPLAY so you're enjoying your experience? you have been enjoying it so far? CLAUDIO yeah. like the first weeks were tough without, without the apartment and always going around; going to the next place, so... but now, . FOMATPLAY are you planning to stay in Italy? CLAUDIO I don't... like I, I think I wouldn't look for a job in Naples because it's um... I think... I don't know if I could get used to this really noisy city. but if I get back at my time of Bologna I think I could have very well imagined... but actually I haven't thought about it. FOMATPLAY do you think it's easy for a foreign national to find a job in the country or? CLAUDIO Probably it's not. so it depends on knowing people having networks. I just saw here in the Orientale there are the libraries in connection with the Goethe Institute from Germany; and yeah probably you... oh I would like to to work in this cultural sector; so maybe um that would be an option, yeah. FOMATPLAY okay. and where is home to you where do you feel you belong? CLAUDIO homeless. yeah, I I think... well I spent the the last... almost five months now with my parents and my brothers, like in December or Christmas in January that's the time spent. I haven't spent for a long time, probably five weeks; um so I saw... well I think I I recognize that home where the heart is. FOMATPLAY and do you also feel you belong to Naples somehow? or to Bologna to Italy as a country? CLAUDIO um. I don't know. I think if you ask me again in half a year, I'll probably say... or tend more to saying yes; but right now I don't think so. FOMATPLAY so you don't think you have, like, an Italian identity as well? you wouldn't say so? CLAUDIO well somehow, because having this Italian name it's a bit... it feels like okay. maybe some, some same parts are Italian but... um. FOMATPLAY do you have relatives in the country or? CLAUDIO No. and if you... like if you ask my if you ask my friends in Germany they will probably say okay yeah yeah he has an Italian part because, well... I spent a year in Bologna and I really like learning the language. yeah maybe that... FOMATPLAY so why did your parents give you an Italian name? CLAUDIO because they, they or my grandmother liked the name. yeah. well um. but if you, maybe again by by contrast, if you if I think about people in Germany who don't have... but who don't like-, but don't want to learn other languages and don't have connections in other countries... so maybe by contrast I would say some Italian things going on. FOMATPLAY okay um. alright. so how would you feel if our freedom of movement was revoked? I haven't asked you this question before. CLAUDIO um yeah I wouldn't like it. well freedom of movement is one step but um... I really would hate, hate to, to have um... really border controls of posts at the border who control... like if I would say like anything during Covid um media... like you had to... was it like this. you have to announce to a country when you went there, yeah. I mean that will be okay for me but um... I really enjoy just taking the bike to another country, taking the bus, train to another country. yeah. FOMATPLAY hmm and um one more question about the attitudes of Italian people towards migration/ migrants. what do you think about it? CLAUDIO oh yeah yeah yeah. it's.... well um... when, when I was in Bologna I think Matteo Salvini was, or at least he was like becoming, a pop figure in Italian politics. or, at least, it was like my my feeling. because there was a huge demonstration of the Lega in Bologna and the people in Bologna made a demonstration against it. and... so in my mind there's definitely this, this picture of Italian politics who really are anti anti-migration in everyday life... I haven't experienced any discrimination. FOMATPLAY and how would you-, you would would you say the same about Germany or do you think that the situation is quite different up there? CLAUDIO Well, I definitely know that in Germany there are yeah there are a lot of just prejudices and stereotypes and this every everyday discrimination. I don't know if that's the right word; but, like, this little things. like giving no... um don't know, probably an example like uh... if you want to uh reserve a table and if you, if you're looking for an apartment for example and in Turgem it's also hard to find an apartment; not so hard as in Naples but... also hard. and if you have foreign name it's just tough. so that's like.. those little discriminating acts; FOMATPLAY hmm okay. um okay, I'm gonna ask you now like a set of short questions. you can answer uh with brief answers as well; just like a sentence or two/three words, as you wish. so define but um and knowing what to do and what's gonna happen in support of Palestinian and um yes well and I don't know if it's so much repeating but um including and others work against them if the Britains also in the media in Germany and all those lies about how much Britain um yeah so I only experienced from it from the radio and if you like if you ask my they're very present presents freedom of movement in one sentence. CLAUDIO not being aware that you crossed the border FOMATPLAY and how would you sum up your freedom of movement experiences across the EU so far? CLAUDIO well that's... that's done. I didn't have to think about it because it was just a fact. FOMATPLAY how would you feel if your freedom of movement was removed? CLAUDIO I wouldn't like it. probably I would protest against it. FOMATPLAY where's home and where do you feel you belong? CLAUDIO home is still in Heidabek where my family lives, yeah. FOMATPLAY how do you feel in your host country that is Italy? CLAUDIO I feel welcomed. I feel safe. FOMATPLAY what do you miss the most of your home country? CLAUDIO actually right now I miss the nature because, well, Naples is a middle age city. I like to to take the bike and... FOMATPLAY would you take the same decisions today? why or why not? CLAUDIO decisions of coming? probably yes. I would do it again. I think I would prepare better, trying to find apartment earlier; but I'd do it again. FOMATPLAY who are you? could you define yourself using three or four words? CLAUDIO okay I need to drink. FOMATPLAY yeah this is the most difficult question, I think. CLAUDIO who am I? um... hell... I think I'm still the person who is still looking for um um a place in my... so like, private life and also career. so I there's a lot of things which are not clear. um I'm definitely like an environmental person. I really like doing spots but right now I can't do it but I will do it again at some point. so, yeah. and I think it's coming from, like, those, all those Turben experiences, experience I think for me it's important to to have equal relations with um yeah between nationalities but also between agendas and yeah... FOMATPLAY okay. thank you Claudio. that's the end of the interview. thank you for sharing this get us.