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FOMATPLAY: thanks Luke LUKE: okay FOMATPLAY: really thanks a lot um so I told you earlier before to start this interview is it okay for you to tell me a few words about you before coming here like where did you come from in England and maybe a few words about your family quickly where you grew up LUKE: yeah I came from twenty minutes from Portsmouth in a small town called Chichester um I worked uh for fifteen years uh doing carpentry um and joinery and I lived on the side of the sea there and I left just after the Brexit vote and as I thought it would be my last chance to live in France or another place in Europe um I've since made a company here um and slowly started to find work and uh since then I have a family in France as well FOMATPLAY: do you mind if I turn up the heater because yeah it's noisy LUKE: I let you or maybe a little bit less yeah that will be much better LUKE: yep FOMATPLAY: so yeah you said earlier you thought it might be your last chance to come in France did you come to France before the Brexit uh not since I was nineteen I worked for five months in the Alps um doing ski (uncertain) and uh washing up and stuff like that but but I didn't speak any any French at all at that time so oh FOMATPLAY: so how did you manage to work LUKE: uh I worked for an English company before um it's a holiday company Mark Warner uh in yeah (uncertain) uh FOMATPLAY: okay and you had finished your studies at that time LUKE: uh yeah uh although I finished I studied art first and then when I went back uh to to England I realised I didn't want to work in the art gallery so I retrained as a carpenter and joiner FOMATPLAY: because we've been visiting this house before the interview right LUKE: yeah FOMATPLAY: you told me you were a carpenter *ébénistrie* *ébéniste* LUKE: yeah I'm qualified as carpentry carpentry and joinery but I do *ébénistrie* as well and soldering and uh like like I like to work with lots of different materials FOMATPLAy: so did you learn all that in England before coming LUKE: yeah yeah and I've learnt from being here and looking for work I've also learnt uh uh (uncertain) masonry um but that was just a stop gap to um whilst I was waiting to to find more clients in carpentry FOMATPLAY: did you get a chance to do this kind of work before in England or did you start here were you already LUKE: no it's very much my work um I was working probably over the last five years I was working in England I was working eighty percent for one one designer and I build furniture or full buildings for him and I'd help him with the design process and so we'd work together other than that there's doing restoration of boats and larger buildings FOMATPLAY: so do do you remember how you felt when your heard about Brexit LUKE: um I I have family who are abroad so I was able to use their votes so actually when I voted I was able to vote four times against Brexit FOMATPLAY: well done LUKE: so yeah um yes I was I wasn't very happy about it but that's that's how it is um I think it was not a very intelligent decision but I think they're beginning to find this out now FOMATPLAY: and when you left you knew you were not really going to come back or what was the plan KUKE: no FOMATPLAY: initially LUKE: no I I wanted to have a try um when I left England I still had two boats uh and I had a container full of uh all of my things um which I plan to rent carry on renting there for six months and then I would see if I had found work and I was enjoying the life here then I I would I would get rid of it all um and I worked my first job I had when I was here was my mother had bought a um a *chambre d'hôtes* and had done the first stage of works and it been very expensive so I had an opportunity to come over and um and finish finish that building for them uh then it took me fourteen months to get my *micro entreprise* (uncertain) so I had to work in a factory in uh Rivesaltes for a while also I waited for my tax code um and then after that I started to work for companies and privately for people FOMATPLAY: so what happened in that time was it easy or difficult did you have someone to help you during those fourteen months to LUKE: it it was very difficult I worked in a um a it's it was a factory making wooden wine boxes um for minimum wage and for a fully qualified position and I had to get through Rivesaltes every day and get back um I nearly gave up and went back to England so um yeah so that was tough um but after that after I had my tax code I was that was everything started to come very quickly FOMATPLAY: so that's the place first place when you arrived around Rivesaltes in the South France LUKE: uh no I was living in Ille-sur-Têt um and I was commuting there every day um after I finished working on uh my my mother's place FOMATPLAY: but you had other friends or relations around here apart from her LUKE: no no I came on my own um without any French at all um so I I don't know if I was brave or stupid ha ha ha FOMATPLAY: how did you feel people were reacting around you LUKE: um I found it quite difficult in Ille-sur-Têt because I'm not having any French no one would have a reason to speak to me um the reason why I moved to Prades was because um I started a relationship with a French girl who who lives here from Marseille um so I came here she took me to a music evening here and I was instantly adopted into with her friends and because I was able to play music I had a a reason to be invited and that helped me start to progress my French although it's still not very good now FOMATPLAY: what are you doing what did you do um since to improve your French LUKE: um I'm working with French people um although one of the workshops I'm working in um it's some guys from Spain who speak Catalan and then second language Spanish no French no English so it's an interesting process communicating we (uncertain) piece of paper and and the the machines are in Spanish as well so FOMATPLAY: so you had to learn Spanish LUKE: so I'm getting my commands in French working with Spanish machine with Catalan but they're very nice people so it works it's okay yeah I've had some lessons but not enough and then I've been using a Duolingo on my phone as well although I've switched that to Spanish now cause I want would like to go speak to the Spanish people FOMATPLAY: and so I tried to make it chronological to understand a bit of your story LUKE: yeah FOMATPLAY: so you got your microentreprise after working in Rivesaltes LUKE: uh it was I I it's the *Chambre des métiers* at at Perpignan FOMATPLAY: yeah LUKE: um the reason it took so long was because they wanted me to do a course uh in French of running a business even though I'd run a business for a long time in England um which was all in French not being able to speak French that took me a very long time to fill out it was a it was a like that of paper um after that I was asked for I'd have a meeting with different people one time per month and they would always ask me a list of different things each time I would go back with the things and I would see someone else who then asked me for other things um and then also I was qualified as a um *menuisier charpente* I had the two qualifications and if you have a microentreprise you are only allowed to use one of your qualifications and I didn't want to drop one qualification so I struggled with that for a bit and in the end I just um I went under uh *charpente* so yeah FOMATPLAY: and then so you met that girl and then that's when you moved to Prades LUKE: yeah one one month after meeting her I was I was very happy to go go to the next place so FOMATPLAY: and so life was a bit different here because you met um like her friends because you said you were playing music or also because there were a lot of other English speaking people LUKE: um it it was a bit of both although I didn't meet I didn't know any English people when when I moved here um it the people who are English that I'm friends with I probably met about a year after living here um and which was nice I don't want to speak just be friends with English people but it's nice to be able to to talk um in my first language ha ha FOMATPLAY: so how how would you say how would you describe your relations now around you what is your new um what's the word um network network or sorry LUKE: it's ok um my FOMATPLAY: is it like is it mainly through work or other kind of friendships LUKE: uh my work network is I share um a large workshop in Prades with two friends um which I work maybe about a quarter of the time there uh then there's two other workshops that I work for intermittently um and other than that I'm working privately in people's houses um my friends groups are um it's either playing music generally um occasionally going off windsurfing and skiing but that's occasional and then it's it's going into the bars and and having coffees or beers after work or um or going for meals and a little bit of rock climbing as well with friends FOMATPLAY: when did you buy the house where you're living now that you LUKE: uh FOMATPLAY: that you're restoring LUKE: in three months in February it would have been two years ago that I've been renovating here and I spend about a third of my working time working here uh the rest of the time is to make the money to carry on working here so um so yeah yeah it's been um a lot of a lot of work for the last year and a half at the moment um but nearly there three or four months left after visiting your house FOMATPLAY: I can hardly believe that in four months you'll be totally done LUKE: I won't be finished on the top floor but the this floor and the next floor up I I think will be very different in one month um FOMATPLAY: but you still find time to work every day LUKE: uh nearly every day nearly um depends if my machines are here my machines are here I like to get as much work done as possible if I'm doing a large job um somewhere else I take my machines off site so I tend not to work in the evenings um can see friends and go to bars FOMATPLAY: so that's the plan actually what what's the plan when you'll be done with this house cause obviously you like working LUKE: I'm hoping that I can start selling furniture I've I've got just started a cooperative with a friend uh which is doing double glazing in old listed buildings um I'm hoping that works um but I also prefer to be making a furniture like a large tables again uh cause it's something I enjoy and I can use my workshop to do that FOMATPLAy: but you won't be selling it in a shop how does it work LUKE: website FOMATPLAY: alright LUKE: uh which Kim uh my friend uh is is making a website to to sell my tables and chairs and stuff so cause um a lot of people don't have that there's not a lot of people with lots of money to buy expensive furniture I've seen FOMATPLAY: so you won't have to create your own website right you'll you can LUKE: no Kim Kim will do that for me and and he'll he'll take a commission which is good FOMATPLAY: so is it okay if I maybe just ask you a little bit about family a little bit LUKE: yeah sure FOMATPLAY: yeah so you you have a daughter right LUKE: yeah I have a daughter Willow who is two um two years and nine months now and a stepdaughter Gemma who has just turned nine in September FOMATPLAY: do you speak English with her LUKE: uh with my daughter I if she's calm I'm speaking English if she's not calm I'm speaking in French uh FOMATPLAY: if she's not sorry LUKE: if she's upset or if I need to say something in an emergency I speak in French um otherwise I try to speak in English with her it's funny I I would have said the opposite LUKE: yeah FOMATPLAY: yeah like when we're angry or are in a rush or we tend to use our mothertongue LUKE: yeah but she doesn't she she definitely understands French better than she understands English so if I need to be direct it's in French so FOMATPLAY: okay yeah that's funny LUKE: yeah FOMATPLAY: when you left England coming here did you have in mind the fact that you were taking advantage about freedom of movement within Europe or LUKE: yes FOMATPLAY: yeah LUKE: yes I did yeah um which is one of the reasons I was very sad about Brexit it's freedom of movement freedom freedom freedom of trade which um it seems to be a good idea um I think it would be a lot more difficult for me to move now um yeah I think it's I think it's sad and I think people won't realize how sad it is and maybe until the next generation really um I don't know FOMATPLAY: but do you miss a bit your home country LUKE: I do yeah I'm I on on par I'm here for a reason because I prefer to be here um but yes there's something culturally that I miss um and even some of the food sometimes even though it's got a very bad reputation but no on on on the whole I'm happy here I miss seeing my friends very often I've only been back to England two times and it'll be six years in in December um so yeah but my mother's here so that's nice that she can know her her grandchild um but none of my friends have have met my daughter yet which is a little bit sad hmm FOMATPLAY: are there any things that you still find weird about French or France LUKE: uh having to confirm a meeting if you make a meeting with someone in England that's you don't ring again so quite often I have a work meeting and um I will arrive at the work meeting and they'll be surprised to see me because I haven't confirmed um that's culturally it's very different uh long lunches um I think the social is very good here um probably better than England now maybe England was better before but it's not as good as it used to be uh with the NHS for example um and yeah it's just a different sense of humor I I'm not I haven't I can't make people laugh in French yet which is quite sad to me because I'm I like making people laugh in English FOMATPLAY: what do you do to make people laugh in English LUKE: oh it's just a um a word play FOMATPLAY: yeah we do that too in France also but I believe it's harder for you LUKE: yeah yeah yeah FOMATPLAY: so you're planning to stay here for a lifetime LUKE: yeah I think so it's um I like the school that my daughter's going to go to um I'm very excited about finishing the house I'm working on and I've started to find interesting work here so I've got a lot of the bases covered in my life and I feel that when I work here I benefit from it instead of in England I'd work the same amount and I'd only just be able to pay my rent um so I think if you're happy to work here you you you can you can still do quite well um something which is different in England now um I've I know people who qualified as doctors who find it difficult to get a mortgage here I had less than three years (uncertain) and I could get a mortgage so um that's very different FOMATPLAY: so you can stay here till the end LUKE: till the end yeah hopefully when I finish this house I can I have enough money to travel around a little bit but FOMATPLAY: what would you like to travel LUKE : yeah FOMATPLAY: where LUKE: oh um my best friend lives in Thailand uh so I'd like to see Thailand uh South America India um I'd like to go across North America as well um because I'd like to see the culture shock of some areas um I'd like to have maybe six months working in Canada at some point um because uh the carpentry is similar to the techniques I know in England um and I think it'd be very interesting to work there um and that's as much as I've thought of at the moment FOMATPLAY: so being a carpenter what what with what you do it's also kind of international passport to be able to work anywhere in the world also LUKE: yeah yeah um and I don't know how that would work with having a *carte de séjour* here if that would allow me to work in Canada more easily um but that's something for me to look at later FOMATPLAY: have you had the opportunity to go overseas before LUKE: um I've worked as a windsurfing and sailing instructor in Greece for six months um worked uh ski season in (uncertain) for five months um and apart from that just traveling on holiday uh skiing quite a lot um um going to Greece and uh have a my family has a house in Spain so I could come visit that as much as I could um but not very much outside Europe FOMATPLAY: how would you react if like you know I don't know something similar as Brexit would spread and happen elsewhere in Europe LUKE: oh Frexit FOMATPLAY: yeah for example LUKE: oh I think I'd still stay in France for now but I've I've got good good way of life here I think you know so um yeah I have no no no reasons to move I think I'd be sad if Frexit happened um because it would probably be um uh sort of a Marine Lepen kind of thing um which I know she's got lots of support for in uh in Perpignan um a little bit less in Ille-sur-Têt and I think not here so FOMATPLAY: um how how do you feel you are participating to the local life here LUKE: um I think a little bit through the music um playing bass um and then I'm hoping that I'm doing the quality of my work is is um it's a benefit to uh the place I'm working I've worked a little bit in the cathedral at Perpignan um uh the church in Perpignan the mairie at Perpignan um and some of the shatters in this area so I'm trying to do historic work where I can um but FOMATPLAY: that's already huge LUKE: yeah okay um but other than than that it's it's just quality of quality of work really um I mean I mean for example this building has been empty for twenty-five years and make it into a family home and a function shop downstairs so whilst not charging too much for the shop um so far I've done a good standard and I I put it at fair price so I hope that's enough um other than that I'm not sure FOMATPLAY: do you feel now you're well accepted here in the area in in Prades with the with your neighbors with I don't know the shops the restaurants and LUKE: I think they yeah I think um I'm fairly well known known in Prades now FOMATPLAY: yeah because we've been eatin together and all the people were like hi Luke LUKE: yeah FOMATPLAY: do you think you'll you'll have more kids LUKE: I I I would hope I had one more one more chance yeah but I don't know it's not something I've really thought been thinking about recently um very very happy with my little one my stepdaughter too so FOMATPLAY: you're happy with the education system in France for her LUKE: um I'm sending her to the Catalan school La Bressole next which I think is very very nice school um all the families are connected all the children play together and it's a nice small school and I want her to learn Catalan as well um I think when children go to high school uh because I've got a friend with children in high school they seem to have a lot of homework which um I'm I'm not I I would prefer a little less uh just cause I think children need enough time to be children and play outside a little bit and do some sports and uh all that but I don't know I haven't had enough I haven't been able to compare it so far cause I haven't put a child through the school system myself yet FOMATPLAY: cause apart from the homework do you think maybe I don't know the the days it the the time kids spend in school is also quite long in France right LUKE: uh in England they don't have Wednesday off um FOMATPLAY: they go for they go to school all day from nine to five as well LUKE: no it's it's nine till three thirty um and that's every day although I went to um I didn't do very well in primary school so I got sent to another school for a while uh for one year and one term was a private school and that started at eight thirty in the morning till five thirty and we had to go to school on Saturday mornings as well and we had homework so but that was that was that was too much so um so I think I think the school's okay I just I just think that the homework is a bit too much they have to come home and do two hours in the evening as well FOMATPLAY: do you would you say your identity has changed since you're here LUKE: um FOMATPLAY: in terms of national values for example or I don't know in a more personal way LUKE: I'm not sure it's been interesting trying to learn another language and dealing with a different situation of um well what I'm used to is not the norm um so I've had to bend the way that I do things the way I do my work um how I keep my appointments um and but it's funny if you're if you're living in England as an Englishman you're seen as the norm and when you're living in as an Englishman somewhere else you're seen as not normal so maybe that's the things that I have which is slightly weird culturally here but um but I don't think I've changed a lot I think uh some things I've learned to accept are different here but I think in myself I'm very similar to who I was um FOMATPLAY: do you feel if you if you had to describe your nationality what would you say you are now today LUKE: it's funny cause my family is from Scotland and French people seem to prefer the Scottish to English so FOMATPLAY: quite exotic LUKE: so so I probably probably identify with my Scottish family a bit more than I did in England FOMATPLAY: that's because of Braveheart you know LUKE: yeah FOMATPLAY: and when when you go back to to England do you feel a bit French do you feel I don't know are you feeling you're going back to your country or LUKE: yeah I think cause it's as I said culturally it's it's it's the way that I've I've been brought up so even though I've been here it will be six years and not very long um it's very easy for me to culturally slip back into the ways I've grown up and um all that FOMATPLAY: sometimes you know things happen with the cameras um did you ever feel any kind of racism here towards you LUKE: um I don't think it's really racism I think it was um down to not being able to speak a language and that gives people the opportunity to um uh they have to be cruel sometimes but I don't I don't think it's in particular racism um sort of silly people at bars or or whatever FOMATPLAY: do you have any memories or examples about things that happened to you in that way LUKE: well the problem is at that point I didn't know what they were saying so I can't really describe how how mean they were being but no it's just in public when you're on on your own sometimes people are a bit um oh sometimes um a little bit competitive about work cause they see me coming in as as a carpenter and a builder and maybe they think okay you shouldn't be here a little bit but and that's normally before they know you and I've afterwards um I've usually had a good working relationship when when people actually have work worked for me so I haven't had any big problems like that FOMATPLAY: and do you know any sorry other foreigners around you I mean not British LUKE: um yeah so a lot of Arabic people I know um couple of people from South America Portugal um uh two Polish people um uh two half Koreans and oh yeah and quite quite a few Germans as well and Dutch FOMATPLAY: I'll have to take a few names then LUKE: yeah okay FOMATPLAY: the last questions are always a bit harder um okay so the I never did the interview in the evening it's much harder than in day actually I've got some short questions at the end about um about how you would define for example freedom of movement in a large way LUKE: yeah FOMATPLAY: how what is freedom of movement for you LUKE: would you mean within Europe or FOMATPLAY: in general LUKE: in general um I would say that I'm for it I think um I can't really see a reason against it um cause it we should all have the right to be able to live where we want to and that means um different countries have different laws and cultures and if you want to adapt to that culture go go to it um but we sure have the opportunity to go and and live which in within whichever culture we we we we deem that we want to I think it's quite simple um as long as you're prepared to work for it and and be be beneficial to it and not just take what you can from the system and all that kind of stuff I can't I can't see any reason why why you shouldn't FOMATPLAY: and LUKE: so you've got to be useful that's all FOMATPLAY: you've got to be useful it's yeah so and how how would you define yourself in a few words if you had to say LUKE: useful hopefully (LAUGHS) FOMATPLAY: alright I'll split the question in two um if there was if there were something important what's the main thing um someone should recall about this interview about what you said LUKE: uh if they were wanting to move to France or FOMATPLAY: you know what maybe more hmm what would be the main thing that um I don't know if you can say that symbolizes your story LUKE: uh well let's let's give it a try take a risk and um it's a lot less of risk if you work hard and you know what you want um which I think I do and I already knew what I wanted but before I came here cause I was doing that in England but it wasn't benefiting me um I saw an opportunity to do something here and I'm glad that I was able to um um yep it's not finished yet FOMATPLAY: and so now the second part uh who would you say you are oh um LUKE: what's the meaning of life um FOMATPLAY: (LAUGHS) sort of I would tell them I'm a compassionate person I went into carpentry because I wanted to do something artistic with my life um so um it's very important to me I like to work artistically and then it doesn't feel like like work um I love playing guitar and drawing and um doing something which I hopefully last longer than myself FOMATPLAY: that's beautiful Luke LUKE: hmm FOMATPLAY: thanks a lot LUKE: my pleasure FOMATPLAY: is there anything else you want to add LUKE: I don't think anything