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FOMATPLAY okay. Hi Nikolas and thank you for being here. So, would you tell us something about your journey? What brought you here? NIKOLAS yes, of course. Nice to meet you. It's nice to be in this interview. The reason I came in Italy was to meet my girlfriend. She is Italian. I met her in Athens and Greece and then after a year we were there we decided to come here. This was after Covid and the main reason why I am here. FOMATPLAY okay. How did you met her? in Greece you were saying... NIKOLAS Yes, in Greece, yes. I was working in Greece. I was there one night out in the same, let's say, [taverna]; we had a conversation there and everything began from this. FOMATPLAY Okay. What do you do here? NIKOLAS now I work in the CNR for a European project; I am a communication coordinator and then other stuff related to the European projects; I set the team, pack the office and everything that I can take of. FOMATPLAY okay, and could you tell us something more about the environment, working environment here in Naples at CNR? NIKOLAS We have a very good team, where they are very helpful, all of them. Nice, let's say.. How can I say it? communication, relationship. it's like a family, let's say. FOMATPLAY and did you work also in Greece? NIKOLAS yes. I have worked also in Greece in another sector. I was... before I started my service in the army; because in Greece the army it's still obligatory; I was working in a maritime company as a manager assistant. FOMATPLAY what about the differences between Greece and Italy according to the working environment? NIKOLAS It depends... more or less, I think it's the same depending on the sector. Because I had the career change. Maybe there are some more differences, maybe not. But I think that more or less is quite the same. For example, one thing I noticed was here in Italy the pause for lunch is something like... mandatory, let's say. In Greece many times, I don't know if it was in my previous job or... but I think, maybe, it's like this; you either have just half an hour, or you meet in front of the computer working with the... meeting with the computer and see; taking meals or thinking what you gonna do next. So it's not like a pause that you will be relaxing. You have something social with other colleagues. FOMATPLAY Okay. So talking about your, let's say, migration experience, have you ever felt mistreated or discriminated here in Italy for being foreign? NIKOLAS in general? FOMATPLAY yeah. Not that much, I would say. Sometimes, maybe, in the beginning that I didn't know the language but... also, maybe, in my premium job, let's say, sometimes they were speaking Italian even if they if they to happened to speak in English they were speaking to me in Italian, sometimes also Neapolitan; that's because they didn't want to speak in English. This is discrimination, I would say. FOMATPLAY okay. How did it feel? NIKOLAS badly, let's say, for my work. Because I didn't know, I didn't understand what I had to do. It'll be... you have to learn Italian, let's say. So we'll speak to you in Italian. You have to understand. And for me it was a little bit difficult at the beginning because I didn't know exactly what to do and had to figure out later. FOMATPLAY what about bureaucracy and the administration field? how did you deal with this? NIKOLAS In many things my girlfriend helps a lot because she knows the Italian procedures. But I would say more or less in Greece, in some occasions they are... it's easier than in Greece, maybe. But I have some help from my girlfriend, she knows the... FOMATPLAY Because she is Italian. Do you communicate in Italian or in English with her? NIKOLAS We communicate in Greek because she knew everything with Greek when she-, when we met. And then time after the time she speaks very well. FOMATPLAY okay. NIKOLAS but now that I also learn Italian sometimes we speak Italian, sometimes we speak Greek; it depends. FOMATPLAY okay and what about your relationship network here in Naples? Your relationships like friendships and...? NIKOLAS yeah. This was the difficulty, let's say, in the beginning. I started to have some friends after I had started the lessons of Italian. So I was with foreign people that were all in the same common situation, let's say. And I made some friendships from there that I still have today. Some of them are right here, in Italy, still. Some of them have left but we keep it touch every now and then. FOMATPLAY okay. So you communicate in Italian and English? NIKOLAS yes. We try to communicate in Italian so that we get better and better; but if we find difficulties we speak in English. FOMATPLAY okay. And could you tell us something more about your learning-; how did you learn Italian? NIKOLAS Yeah. For sure by experience the first year. Because in my first job and also in the first year it was, it wasn't required to speak Italian; but, as I said before, my colleagues started to talk to me in Italian. Then, when I did the career change, let's say, and I started working with the University, CNR etc. I also, in the the same time I begun learning Italian; so both the lessons and my colleagues that were always helping speaking either English or Italian; and having daily conversations with the family all the time. FOMATPLAY okay, um... which parts of Italy or, even, which parts of Naples did you find it easiest to assimilate, to accept? What do you like most about Naples? The values of Neapolitans, Italians in general? NIKOLAS yes, the first thing I noticed is the kindness received from the Neapolitans. They say always thank you, you're welcome; very kind in the conversation; very open and easy talking. Even if they don't speak English they will try to help you, give you directions and assist you whatever you want. yeah, this was the main value I like a lot; and it gave me also the impression that it was like for all. FOMATPLAY Is there something that you struggle to accommodate? NIKOLAS In what sense? FOMATPLAY in terms of values and attitudes of Italians. NIKOLAS yes. The things like, for example, when they see tourists, they always try to, you know? take the opportunity, let's say, from the taxis, for er... you know? how do you say it? directions? for the way you that you know it costs 10-12 euros they will say to you 12-; 20 euros. When you say to them okay put the taximeter because it's all without the taximeter, without anything. They say "if I put it I will charge you more. listen to me". I know here these stories. but you know? because I have take the taxi a lot of times and I know the thing. They say it will cost you more if I put the taximeter, then... then if you say that you're not from here they try to... to trick you, let's say. FOMATPLAY Did you experience anything like that in these almost three years? NIKOLAS Three years. The taxi is something common. Maybe now not that much. I don't know if my Italian accent is better; but at the beginning for sure, yeah. FOMAtpLAY okay and how do you evaluate your experience here in Naples? is it positive or..? NIKOLAS No, for sure it is positive, yes. FOMATPLAY okay. Do you miss Greece? NIKOLAS yes, of course. This is my only thing that I have on my mind; because I always wanted to go in my Village to live my quiet life there. This is something that it's on the back. Even when I was living in Athens. It was in my mind that I didn't want to live in big cities. And this is one of the thing I still have on the back of my mind. I have the time to Greece on Summer for vacation. I feel like home also here. I'm very close with the Italians. So for me it is not that big of a deal. For sure I miss my friends, I miss my family but with some other friends that live in the other countries; and we have talked about this, they told me that you know it's a lot different because you cannot find also the same food; they have problems; if they go out they have the same things; the ingredients, also. For example, If you buy them from grocery shops, supermarkets, it is not the same quality. And I said in Italy we don't have the same problem. Good cuisine, good ingredients. FOMATPLAY so how often do you go back to Greece? NIKOLAS for sure every summer. Some years I went more for other locations too. For example, this year I was there for one month, almost in August, during vacations. I plan to also with work in January. I don't know if it is... I will have enough to.. I will have a congress in Athens so we could visit and call. FOMATPLAY okay. And um... let's talk about Europe and the main topic of this project. So, how would you define freedom, freedom of movement? what's your experience? NIKOLAS I think there is freedom of movement. I don't know how easy and the is to go, let's say, in all the countries. if you... maybe some countries it's easier, some others maybe it's not. On the one hand, I don't know the exact experience because I had the help of my girlfriend. So I didn't have the time to do too many things by myself, to do all the process, for example; and then find other things that maybe I didn't know... I didn't have to find a find a house rent, find a job. I helped the same my girlfriend in Greece. FOMATPLAY yeah what, what do you mean when you say that in some countries is easier while in others not, in terms of freedom of movement? NIKOLAS yeah, no. This is my thought, let's say; because maybe some other countries... I have to think about it... you know? maybe it's... the work availablilities, for sure. It's my thought. It's like the way the culture maybe it's close to your culture or maybe not. Maybe it's how easily you can find a home or not. For example, I have some friends who moved to Amsterdam; some of them left. Some of them, they said to me that it's very difficult to find a home right now. And someone had this exact conversation and told me that they were very lucky; one day, before they came to Greece for vacations, they had found a home, just the day before. To me it's very, very difficult to find a home. And they a lot. yes in some other countries, maybe, the culture is not very close to our culture. They don't get easily informed, let's say. they don't feel connected, in some ways. FOMATPLAY yeah, okay. And what do you think about the EU as an institution? what do you think about European values and so on? NIKOLAS yes I think, more or less, in Europe they have values about the European Community and also, I think, the Europe gives tools to work in another counties; for taxes and other stuff. For Italy, for example there are some helpful, let's say, with the . it's the... I don't know the translation. The code that you take if you want to go to the basic hospitals. maybe it could be better, let's say. I don't know the exact procedure, the exact bureocracy, let's say. But they kept something very easily. I don't know if I replied to this question. FOMATPLAY Yeah, sure. Okay and um.... let's talk a little bit about Brexit. Do you-; Brexit, yeah. do you have any memories of that referendum? NIKOLAS for the Brexit and not the Grexit? FOMATPLAY no, no Brexit. NIKOLAS no, I don't have any memories, but I remember that you know? in the past I went to Great Britain with my only European ID and it was very, very easy. I think now it's not like that. You need the Passport, the VISA so it makes things more complicated, for sure. I don't know if it's a... I don't know if there is any special regulation that still Europeans can visit. FOMATPLAY not at all. and were you surprised after the results? NIKOLAS I'm not that surprised, let's say. Because as a statician there is probability for everything. FOMATPLAY okay. So Brexit did not affect you at all, or even your friends? NIKOLAS directly, actually not that much. For friends, for example, the brother for one of my friends; I think he was in the, let's say, between the transition; so there were some rules that he managed to... kept him with his studies; and me, personally, I don't have any conflicts, let's say. But for sure, many other people, they have the tourism or the.... with the companies, let's say; this kind of stuff. FOMATPLAY okay. do you feel European? do you think you have a European identity? NIKOLAS what is the European identity, exactly? I feel Greek, for sure. I feel human, for sure. If I'm not European or American or Asian it doesn't change that much. FOMATPLAY are you starting to fell a little bit Italian too? NIKOLAS for sure. let's say because you have to take some of the habits of the Italians and some jestures; maybe the way of talking, in some things. FOMATPLAY okay. um let's go back into your background uh... you said that you have studied in Greece, but you are now working at the university here in Italy. what are the differences between these two environments? let's say, the education in Greece and Italy. NIKOLAS yes, for example, one thing I noticed in the universities here and in Greece; in Greece, the universities are a lot of.. political, let's say-; how do you say it? politicized, politicized, let's say. So, there are political parties inside the university; I don't know if you have been to Greece, in University; but the... I remember my first experience in a Greek university; to go and register myself. There were people coming from political parties. In all of the political parties over there, all of them. They were coming as a friend, you know? trying to help you but the truth is.... I will say from the experience I saw in four years there. At the beginning even if they could be a good tool in the universities they are becoming destructive to the great universities as they promote and outstanding, going to parties and going to excursions and trips, let's say, organized by them. not... people take the opportunity to take money out of this, let's say; and then the first that I have noticed here is that they-, there are not these kind of things; or maybe not at the same level as in Greece. I remember in English, for example, some people saying, you know? you don't have to go in this lesson. We will give you the answers and you have to read, so you can pass the exam. So this profession is very strange, let's say. You have to study a lot. But if you start taking the directions, you know? not going to this lesson, not studying that much in this lesson, then you find it later in front of you. Here, I think, the lessons are more indicated to... and people really don't have these distractions inside and outside, let0s say, the university. there are objectives and there are not people there that they should help to this direction and this... at the end they take to another direction. this is one point of view for me, let's say. u FOMATPLAY this is, maybe, a personal question so feel free not to answer,. Are you planning to build your family here in Italy or do you think that you can go back to Greece? NIKOLAS that would be the case, yes. it's never.... you cannot predict the future, let's say, exactly; because in the past, maybe, you put the plan yourself in ten years, saying that, you know? In the future I want to have a family, have a stable job, have a house and live my life. Now you cannot predict what happens in the next 6 months. Did I even know that I would have been here in Italy? yes. but, yes. Generally, for sure, for the short term future, let's say, I will stay in Italy. As I said, because in the back of my head there is the Plan B of the calm life in the village; I'm not sure what I have in my mind. So, who knows in maybe 3- 5 years what happens. FOMATPLAY yeah. so would you take the same decisions that- NIKOLAS what? FOMATPLAY would you take the same decisions today, of moving? NIKOLAS yeah, no. For now my decision is to stay here for at least a couple of years and then we'll see. We'll decide then. FOMATPLAY do you have um an idea of your next destination? NIKOLAS not that much. Let's say, for sure Italy maybe in another city; you never know. Maybe also this would be an option; or maybe the countyside of Italy. FOMATPLAY okay um... how do you feel about Italian attitudes towards migrants? What do they think about migration at large and then migration within the European counties? NIKOLAS Can you repeat the question, please? FOMATPLAY Yeah, what do you think about Italian attitues about migration at large? and then, how do you think they feel about migration within European countries? NIKOLAS yes. In general, It is normal on most of the countries; you have mixed, you have mixed how to say it? opinions. Generally, I see that Italy has a positive attitutude towards migration. For sure, there will be some occasions that they are negative but I don't see, in general, that they are very negative, opposite etc. I don't know. We see from the political parties and then in the television that they have, how to say it? a stand, let's see... a bit hard with immigration that comes from Africa; the situation is a little bit difficult and it's hours, hours of discussions. Maybe this could even happen with the illegal immigration; the mechanism to help them directly with safety, you know? we find out any of these, let's say, dangers happening. yes. Towards European migration I don't think that there is that much. Again, the same. I think it's more about the people that come. if they are strange people, they will... or shout to them in a strange way. if they have a good attitude they will receive also a good attitude. FOMATPLAY okay. Which languages can you speak apart from English, Italian and Greek? NIKOLAS Maybe also some dialects. The Neapolitan, let's say. But mainly it's Greek, English and Italian. FOMATPLAY okay. And what makes you feel you belong to Naples? NIKOLAS for sure, my girlfriend. For sure, the way of life that's a little bit closer to the way of life in Greece. I did say outgoing, socializing also in the streets; going out etc. The sea that is here, the history that you have. FOMATPLAY How attached are you to Greece? NIKOLAS can you repeat the question? FOMATPLAY yeah, how attached... NIKOLAS a lot, for sure. And also I'm attached a lot to my traditional culture of Creta. Because in Italy there are different cultures in all the countries. Also in Greece, let's say, in Creta we have specific traditional, traditional music and dances and a way of life, even. So, I will say that I am connected, attached to that too. FOMATPLAY okay. And what do you miss most of Greece? NIKOLAS something could be also the, the... how can I say that? the way of relaxing, of how you spend your time in the restaurants or the [taverna], let's say. Something different than from the Italian way of eating. Cause, for example, here when you go out, you go out to eat. In Greece there is a difference that you go out to eat and also have fun and listen to music, dance, maybe. You have discussions so things go more slowly on the table. You have discussions with friends< maybe you enjoy some music also< maybe you dance, as I said before. And they're not in the way of the fast food, let's say. Maybe you order, the you eat, they take your dishes and then you order the dessert. Maybe caffé, [amaro], as they say here; and then you have to leave. In Greece, maybe you can go there order drink, wine; reorder and have it in a continuous way. But some things are different there and some things are different here. FOMATPLAY okay Nikolas. On the other side, is there something that you miss of Italy when you're in Greece? NIKOLAS I don't remember which time it was. When I was in Athens after a while I missed the, I don't know, the energy of Napoli; the way it is. Something... some people, maybe, they don't find it attractive. Also for me at the beginning it was probably a little bit strange from the scenery of Athens that I had in my mind. When I came here and saw different architecture in the buildings, for example. But when I was in Greece, for example, and then I came back-; when I put my foot in Naples, I saw these things that I missed. Sometimes it's like also like when you travel back in time and it's really nice. And also, like, it's the song like [Napule mille color di Pino Daniele]. FOMATPLAY that's great, okay. and what do you know about your freedom of moments rights as a as a European citizen? NIKOLAS what do I know? To be honest nothing. I know that with my Greek ID, now they will put, they'll introduce the new one. Now I still have the old ID that doesn't... there's no date of-; expiring date. So, it's an old ID that in some countries they didn't know what is it. And also sometimes I have problems in the airports. FOMATPLAY could you tell us something more about these problems? NIKOLAS the problem was mine because I had the old identity. Because in Greece the identity cards expired after 15 years from the day that it's written. No, the day it was produced; let's say. And I had an old identity that was 12 years old at that time. Photograph, and this was a problem. And they just wanted to check that it's ok etc. I had to change it when I was 18 years old but I didn't. FOMATPLAY okay. NIKOLAS it was more of a procedure that wrong by me, let's say. FOMATPLAY okay. so did you solve this matter easily? NIKOLAS I had to wait a little bit for some controls in the airport. yes, but now it's ok. FOMATPLAY okay. How would you feel if somebody told you that freedom of movoment was revoked? NIKOLAS In Europe? In the sense that I cannot go to other countries? For sure very disappointed, let's say. Because it would narrow me in a place. Now I feel free if I want to go somewhere else; just with my identity, no care with the procedure. FOMATPLAY and do you think that it's quite easy for a foreign to get a job here in Italy or in Naples? NIKOLAS hmm I was uh.... I could say that I was uh lucky enough to find jobs. The first job- I came to Italy, one of the reasons, because I, how do you say it? I booked, not booked-; I closed, let's say, my deposit. Okay, so one of the issue was that I got the job before I came here to Napoli and that was my decision; because if I didn't have the security of a job here maybe I would consider it with a second, third thought. After that because in that job they wanted to transfer me to another location in Italy and I could not accept it because I moved from a country to another for my girlfriend, let's say, and I had to, again, move to another part alone. It was not... FOMATPLAY a balance? NIKOLAS not balance, let's say. it was not okay. what was it in the question? It was... FOMATPLAY if do you think it's easy for, for a er person to find job here? NIKOLAS yes. yes, I was lucky enough. I found the job. After that there were some programs, funded programs from the Italian government. They were giving money to companies and then have some and big companies. And then, I have already had the discussion about my current job, let's say, in university. And in the meantime; of course I didn't know if it was something short or not; I was trying to find something else for the job. So I begun these trainings and I had a job offer from there; but at the same time the job offer from the university was done so... because I consider more the one of the university, as I have discussed. FOMATPLAY okay. Maybe, one last question. How active are you in your community here in Italy? NIKOLAS not that much, I would say, as I would like to. I thought so many times to find some local Greek community, let's say, to interact and get friendships and meet people here who moved; maybe, socialize a little bit; know more about the city and the country also, from the point of view. But so far because um.. I was not alone here; so this didn't give me the push to do that. FOMATPLAY You felt you didn't need a support network. NIKOLAS yeah. For the.. Now not that much but I'm sure there were times when I was thinking about finding someone like... I'm not sure... this last weekend we had a discussion about this; some people asked me if I know-; I think it's not like a community; some people like me that are from Rodi, from Athens, from Greece, they told me that they're doing some stuff here and I would like to get in contact in order to know them; see what they're doing; socializing a little bit. Luckily I speak Greek with my girlfriend so I don't miss that much speaking Greek, let's say. And I feel like home in that part. FOMATPLAY okay. and do you think Naples is your home? NIKOLAS Yeah, that will be the case, yes. after 2-3 years that I'm here, Naples has become part of my life, in general. FOMATPLAY Ok. Now we have some short questions. You can answer with one sentence or just few words. Define freedom of moment in one sentence. NIKOLAS one sentence? Mandatory. FOMATPLAY How would you sum up your freedom of moment experience so far? NIKOLAS Quite positive; with a little bit of help. FOMATPLAY okay. In few words how would you feel if your freedom of moment was removed? NIKOLAS I would do anything to find my way of movement. Even if it wasn't free, I would do anything possible to find my way of moving around. Cause there is always another way. FOMATPLAY yeah where's home and where do you feel you belong? NIKOLAS home, for sure, it's where I grew up. But home it's where I am, also. Home it's, maybe, where I feel most safe. FOMATPLAY how do you feel in Italy? NIKOLAS I feel quite good. I feel like home. I would say, also. yes. FOMATPLAY okay. And what team is the most of Greece? NIKOLAS the sea FOMATPLAY would you take the same decisions today? why or why not? NIKOLAS with the same exact... let's see; how do you say it? the same exact things that happened, for sure. Yes. FOMATPLAY why? NIKOLAS because so far nothing has... I don't really regret my decisions. I gained experience from here; I Learned another language; I see other places that maybe I wouldn't see. And for sure I gained many things that I use. FOMATPLAY okay. okay the very last question. so who are you? could you define yourself using three or four words? NIKOLAS define in words? FOMATPLAY yes. NIKOLAS can you repeat the question? FOMATPLAY yeah. It's a tough one. Who are you? if you could define yourself just using three or four words? NIKOLAS adventurous, for sure. always in the lookout for new opportunities; and not resting a little bit about missing his opportunities. I didn't say one word. FOMATPLAY no it's fine. okay, thank you Nikolas.