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FOMATPLAY okay. so thank you Magda for joining the project. Our first question for you is um about your journey. So what brought you here? can you tell us a little bit more about your-, travelling to Italy and your..? Magdalena right so I came here as a part of the Erasmus mobility program, for staff um. I am currently full-time employed at which is in Turkey, Istanbul. I have an agreement with the university here um for exchange. and for about three years now I've been trying to use that opportunity. it work... it didn't work for 3 places for various reasons; there was a pandemic etc. um also inflation and kind of prevented me from going, coming, going anywhere; and then this year I decided that I'll make it happen. Together with the International Relations Office um we kind of dealt with the the paperwork um and of course I chose the university and I connected with the professor and as a result... FOMATPLAY uh huh okay uh why did you feel that you wanted to uh move around in the first place? MAGDALENA um I think first of all it was about the academic experience. So I wanted to do something different. Of course it's also part of, kind of, because it's teaching mobility exchange it's not training so I knew that I will have to teach a number of hours um... however I wanted to teach something more faculty-related in terms of evaluation of sources and academic skills, rather than focusing on language development. um so I thought I needed that um experience to kind of... um build my identity as an academician as I thought that a side of me hasn't probably kind of developed for for a while. Even though I completed like master's degree um a year ago; um I thought that it was just kind of ticking the box rather than actually feeling that I developed as a person and um , um to be more precise. secondly, I thought that um I needed an experience outside of Turkey and difficulties that we have been facing for a while and I felt disconnected from the European-. okay it will sound a bit cheesy but it's kind of a European, pro-European spirit in a way. in a sense of kind of community-wise I guess... FOMATPLAY can you tell us a little bit more about this community? FOMATPLAY so obviously I go back and forth; go back to Poland, like my home country. I went there in April so that was not far off but um but it still is kind of a kind of a family unit, you kind of you know stay within the family; it's, it's my own country. we, we, we normally stay at home and kind of... you know? limited in terms of the exposure. I guess also my part of Poland, you know? I visited and they come from... they're not that um touristic, kind of... it's it doesn't bring people from different parts of Europe, I would say. it's more kind of these are places visited mostly by the locals and Polish people. of course we do get foreigners coming in and out but it's not that that frequently visited. um so I think I needed some kind of um sense of being a part of... it will sound very cheesy but the kind of like European kind of identity, I guess. And the fact that, you know? the work that we did as a country, as Poland, um joining the EU; because I was in primary school I guess when that happened. And I remember the feeling of being proud and um and the achievement, let's say, for us the country. um and kind of breaking um... again it will sound very pumped but some kind of change that we were kind of brought down with for various reasons: historical, political and such, right? that have had been happening for, you know? number of time and that, you know? even though of course you know some parts of it were brought upon us from the western side; um but I thought, but I think that's you know there, there was some reconciliation happening and kind of um... attempt to FOMATPLAY what kind of reconciliation? MAGDALENA um... so, you know, from the German side, you know? in the um 70s and 80s we had um attempts from uh Germany to apologize for, for, for, for, for the situation that happened uh in the 30s and 40s and um and what that brought about was, you know, that we can't stay, basically. like another um... and that allowed another force coming from the east to kind of take over and the powers, also within because of course we've had people that from our own country that kind of gave in our identity, our principles and the history. that kind of um provided our worth but kind of build our um us as a nation; uh and of course had, you know, repercussions for things to come. but still, you know? there was, the work that has- had been going on prior to the access. Before the European Union help um.... I think brings us a little bit, you know? together and understand the humanity part of it and that um there were attempts and gestures that kind of helped build some kind of formal um um bringing us together despite the difficulties. FOMATPLAY and for example? MAGDALENA yes, so, so, so there, there were the priests, the bishops from Germany; they were in Poland and came together. It was in the 80s, I think. The 80s beginning of the 80s, um build some kind of bridge on the religious, let's say. Christian grounds. um of um reconciliation; and kind of, you know? um making up for the atrocities that did not happen. I have used a loaded word there, but... that's it. um so um so yeah, and and of course it gave us the opportunity to see a better future, I guess; financially as well because the economy has, had been illegal um.... broke down a lot of times, it wasn't for the benefit of the people. it was for the benefit of another entity um and uh.... in time it kind of gave us hope that, you know? we can kind of rebuild and um hopefully become more developed as a country and... both in terms of, you know? kind of um identity-wise, as well: being proud of who we are and kind of um protecting our own identity against things that we might not be necessary okay with; but also we have access to to better education, to better facilities, technology, sports and also opportunity to travel. that's an aspect to it. And because with that opportunity to travel there is a sense of trust, right? that is there, right? that emerges between the nations across the borders. FOMATPLAY okay so how would you define, since you mentioned that, your personal versus national versus European identity? is this a separated even? or is this like a more of a...? MAGDALENA I think they overlap, yeah. I don't think that they kind of... there is a clear boundary between these. cause I think despite the difficulties that we have been gone through, right? even between the nation; I think it's a shared history and I think it's a um.... something that, you know? things can be build off. first there are conflicts and then that they will happen. that's kind of factual but um and there are aspects to the, you know? European Union that needs need to be changed, developed, and.... um I guess the institution kind of aspect to it; it's a little bit bureaucratic, maybe not clear um... I don't know. maybe it will be a bit selfish of me to mention but you know as somebody who lives outside of the European Union in Turkey I used to kind of email the European Union asking for help because I thought some decisions that um were made, were a bit contradictory to what the European Union gives to Turkey. of course, again; I have complex relationship but um... but I felt that, you know? there is something going wrong in terms of the agreements that they've made and I as a person, who kind of stands on the other ends of those decisions but kind of... I'm affected by those; so I thought that yeah the European should kind of be aware of certain situations that are happening um... FOMATPLAY they didn't reply to you? MAGDALENA they did. but it's quite generic reply. it's about, you know? that's, that's upon the decision of the national state, national agency; and they don't have any capacity to kind of interfere in their decisions. which I thought was a little bit surprising because, you know? the money is being given and their agreements are made um... it was about the healthcare system at some point it was about the Erasmus Programme as well; because I didn't feel like these were working well um.... for us as recipients those kind of.... um decision, let's say.... right, so in terms of identity as a national person and European. I think yeah these are pretty much kind of overlapping. I don't think that there is a particular kind of line I would draw between these. um maybe in Turkey, I think, I... because it's very easy to forget and kind of and make the decision of assimilating into the environment, and kind of going with the flow. let's call it. um but I think, I think that's kind of maybe strange myself; I think I am different in some sense; that there is something else that shaped me over the years and it's not only about the history that I've gone right through in my education and childhood; but it's also with my grandparents went through, my parents etc. they shared with us consciously and subconsciously so... of course some parts of national identity I have problems with. I don't identify with some parts of it. I think some parts are quite controversial um.... to our national identity that maybe shouldn't be emphasized as much as they do in the public discourse. for some of it I try to rationalize it and understand why, maybe it's happening. but for some of them I think, you know? it goes a little bit too far and I guess it is not something that I identify with, personally. so maybe I would draw a line there but of course it's about the politics as well and kind of um... touching upon people's kind of fevers I guess.... FOMATPLAY do you have something specific in mind? MAGDALENA um so that, that's the issue of migration; that the government took a stand on... I don't know what's going to happen at the moment because with the new election, you know, the government seems that is going to change maybe, in some ways. in Poland, yes. uh in a way I understand it because we were not a colonial empire and we have never experienced; we haven't had the exposure to the outside world. for us the outside world is bringing hmm negative aspects, right? because if you look at the history of the 40s and 50s earlier than that and then what happened after Singapore wars; it's the outside that brings something negative, it doesn't bring anything positive. And I think that's the reaction that people have and when they see certain um news pieces um in the media, they-; and of course it's mostly the negative that comes up; so they get attached to those and they don't see the kind of, you know? the other aspects to it, the positive aspects to migration. um although I, I think deep inside there is an interest in people uh in the other; like in other cultures and that the... and Polish people like to travel, they want to experience, they're not really like, you know? um living in a box and kind of separating themselves; but I think there's a general- genuine fear um of the outside because of the lack of experience in the past. I think it's-, it doesn't have enough yeah there was just not enough exposure. like this, this were just bits and pieces, pieces at the end of the day. You know? the Orientalism movement and um in art and um in litterature maybe; but these were just just elements so... and the other aspect to it is also the political kind of playground of it that it's being used for some kind of political gain and.... in the current, you know? situation and that um there is a fear that it's, it's, again, kind of causing the weakening of the state and our, us as an identity, which, you know? the identity that has been able to come up in a free way just, just recently; so that's been like.... it started in the 90s and then um with the bringing down of the the wall, Berlin wall and the collapse of USSR and then um... but I think it was really like the end of 90s at the beginning of the 2000, so that's basically 25 years maybe. FOMATPLAY okay just to uh, just just to clarify. When you say migration, you mean migration from uh within the European countries or without-, I mean, out of- outside Europe? MAGDALENA out of. I think you know within it's, it's kind of accepted. Because it's a part of the system. FOMATPLAY okay MAGDALENA but, and it's kind of understood better... I mean when I'm saying it right now I see, like, maybe there is a clash there between what I'm saying and maybe the reality but... I think the within is, yeah, kind of accepted as a part of the system. FOMATPLAY the European system? MAGDALENA yeah, that we have, you know? and since the historical kind of background is more, kind of known, and maybe better understood... that's why it's maybe more accepted; but you know I can never speak for the others 100%. that's kind of my way of um making make my own understanding out of this intuition and while certain occurrences mught happen. FOMATPLAY okay. uh so, um also just to uh expand what you were saying at the beginning of the interview; so when you when you are in Turkey, you feel you are in a different place than Europe, right? MAGDALENA yes, and it wasn't that obvious to me. FOMATPLAY in what ways? MAGDALENA it wasn't obvious or? FOMATPLAY no, in what ways you feel different? yeah, you are in a different place? MAGDALENA I think it's the... I think it's the history. I think it's the history um.... that we can't find that bond on the deeper level. FOMATPLAY social? Affective? MAGDALENA I think it's affective. I think culturally as well because I can't understand certain things, certain nuances, it's a little bit hard for me to kind of get it um... also some stances that, you know? I see, I experience, you know? um hear about, you know? I can't kind of see how those stancecs are being rationalized against other stances. I am kind of like conflicted in why um certain ideas are not being seen in the kind of wider context... um but I guess is the history and what shaped Turkey and other country and what shaped us as country. I think there's the culture; I don't get certain aspects of their music, humor; I am kind of totally kind of separated from that because I don't have the background. As far as I understand, I need to assimilate because I'm a foreigner and I need to accept the situation. I mean, because it was my decision and I need to respect the laws and kind of social nerves; but at some point I understood that there is a part of me, which doesn't accept the social norms as they're being prescribed on me and I have to um just basically say no to them. um because it would jeopardize myself as an individual and I'll just have to, kind of, forget, refuse, you know? whatever has happened shaped me as a person both in terms of my respect words, my parents, grandparents and um... giving some parts of me would just um show kind of negligence to that and I don't think I would be... FOMATPLAY can you give us an example or is this too personal? if it is, never mind. MAGDALENA um.... yeah I guess I can give some... So it was about some of it is about religious ground-, you know? religion. It's about you would fit better if you were a Muslim. um so that wouldn't work for me. it wasn't always kind of explicitly said but um the undertone was there; and certain behaviors, in terms of hierarchy, also was kind of um put upon me and um.... uh and I said no to that; because I thought that I would lose my freedom and, you know? without freedom there is no kind of creative side to and it puts you in a difficult situation, not only in terms of your relationship, you know? family and you know? the background story that family carries; um but also health. so I thought that, you know? that would be um too much to handle. it was basically following rules of obedience, of acceptance uh and also that kind of, now I see it; like it was first-, it started like, you know? religion cause that was the most obvious one. um because often the first questions that are being asked like "what religion do you follow?" and that was the kind of the first one that I faced and then there was a family because obviously I'm married to a Turkish person so that was part of it and then I think I also started to see it also in, in my professional setting. I think I also started seeing it at work; that things are as they are except things, you know? for what they are kind of a situation and... um this would be like three layers. FOMATPLAY um um have you ever felt some kind of hostility towards you in Turkey? but also while travelling around Europe? MAGDALENA um... no, I would apologize sometimes. you know there are those misunderstandings. like I say like staying until it's kind of a test of your character because you have to accept that you're not going to satisfy everyone. like even, you know, crossing the road going shopping and I don't know... like yesterday I Learned that I had to put money into this machine for, for it to give me the change and the lady got upset to me because I didn't know that where I had to put the money into the machine. but it's... but it's kind of... I see it as a kind of a test of character; I don't see it as invasive; like it doesn't um put under threat my identity per se, it's more kind of a test on my character maybe a way of, you know? cause I'm quite an assessive person, I take things very personally; sometimes too much um... but I see it kind of a kind of the power balance here, it' is kind of equal; so I can kind of maneuver that; I can deal with it with humor etc. etc. whereas in Turkey I think sometimes I feel that it does um... it is a threat of my identity. It's a threat for my kind of personality: I don't know maybe subconsciously it's because I'm outside of Europe and that's why... how I... that's... because I perceive it this way. but um... I don't know. I think, generally, sometimes it is... it can be aggressive and it's, it kind of attacks my sense of security. Cause here, you know? with the examples that I gave, just now being here in Italy and uh even if it happens to another country or somebody mocks me for my accent or etcetera; I don't see it as invasive; sometimes like this or... um because it's about my freedom of choice, my freedom of being secure and not realizing that what's, what's being done to me it's it's it's very dangerous on those levels. FOMATPLAY how come you say accent? so when you speak Turkish in Turkey they they mock you? or when you? MAGDALENA I don't know, like, even here in Europe; like if they speak in English they sometimes, you know? point out different things but that was very very rare. it's, it's... or the choice of words that they make but that's, that's.... it's not that common in Turkey. it's more... it's actually very funny. so my surname is pretty funny when you say it in Turkish; it's not really the spelling, it's really the pronunciation. when you say it in Turkish it sounds like Adam chick, which, which means like small-, because [Adam] means "human" in, in Turkish so it's like "small human"; the "chick" makes it like, you know? um infantilizes the word. um so they kind of a little bit, you know? they always want to learn how my surname is pronounced. I said "you know? maybe we'll talk about it later". it's not that important at the moment, those are the students, most of the time. but then like the Turkish surnames are really, really, like... they really stand out because it could be a flower, like chick flower or... like [Solre], my second surname after my husband it means like "somebody who speaks a lot". you know? They're kind of... meaning-wise quite old. um or... I don't know [Akhmeth] so it's kind of um... interesting that, you know? my surname becomes an issue in something to kind of make... that's a little bit to make fun of; whereas the surname that, you know? the Turkish people have are also quite-, and when you translate them they're quite, you know? also they kind of stand out it's not like... um and I gave like softer examples, to be honest; some of them when you really translate that thing uh it does sound like interesting. um but again maybe because it's different, it's not kind of usual... FOMATPLAY and how about the working environment? so what kind of working environment have you found here in Italy, Naples? uh what kind of working environment are you used to back in Turkey? or if you also worked around Europe? MAGDALENA I think it's welcoming... It's, it's kind of being... it's kind of being a part of the group; but maybe again it's kind of my subconsciousness speaking at the moment; because I want to be a part of the group and I want to create that space for me; but I think um there is no wall, you know? or line being driven. is kind of we are collectively trying to create something better, beneficial. um and there is that sense of we are connected through the.... and here institutionalized kind of forms of the European Union um... sometimes, you know? it's kind of... it'a bit also... um interesting, in some ways; maybe controversial, you know? because when I say, you know? Turkish person asks me "are you, is Poland part of the European Union?" and I say "yes"; "oh that's good for you" or "how lucky you are". and again maybe it's kind of my defensive mechanism at the moment but my first thought is like: yeah, because we, we have been building this continent for four years now and we have been intertwined as nations' countries, you know? in different ways. Some of them worst, some of them better. So it doesn't seem to me something that I'm, should be lucky, feel lucky about. like it's something that I think is it was an actual consequence of certain events. so when I was crossing the border, I felt, you know? holding the passport without feeling proud that, you know? I can just move freely without being... There is this sense of trust, as I said before, among us. although I also see the situation which people are being rejected or being um scrutinized morre at the border. that, that is an issue and also it makes them feel... hmm I don't want to say worse but um yes vulnerable, not accepted. and I saw it with my husband, when we were applying to the UK visa. that was a mess, on another level. but um he was basically rejected on the premise that it was Brexit time so they didn't want to have trouble that, that's what they call it; and also because we didn't have, we didn't own a house; there was another reason that we were given. of course that wasn't listed, you know? in the requirements. it was the money, it was the invitation letter... later we learned that we made a mistake. that we should, we shouldn't have said my brother lived in the UK because the fear was that, you know? my husband would stay, or whatever. and we were going there for his wedding, basically. um so the idea was that we should have applied for a normal touristic visa and probably that we would have received it but I don't know... but, you know? it made, made us feel a little bit-, and I felt felt for my husband as well; that he felt like on what ground are you rejecting my application? I'm not a criminal. I didn't commit any crime in the UK, I didn't break any border laws. you know? I have, I had a job at the time, you know? stable job at the good university. um and they probably they saw my university because it's quite well established, let's say. um and then he had--- it was during the pandemic so it was a bit-. for him it was a bit difficult job-wise, but still he was, you know? he was working and we had, you know? the financial means to support both of us; and there was no issue. my brother also took care of many things um so I understand the feeling of, you know? kind of rejection on the ground of travel, right? how that feels. and I know right now in Turkey there are lots of uh rejections from the European Union side. and sometimes I feel like because it's being expressed to me and sometimes in an open form and I don't know how to react. but, you know? for now I haven't said anything but at some point I say no. you know? cause I've tried to understand that there are too many applications so people, they break the rules; so the European Union is trying to kind of take control of the borders; even for people who, you know? technically would just go back because they work in academia these are researchers, these are instructors, lecturers etc. but I understand the situationis is sensitive, especially in the Easter border with the war in Ukraine. but there is the sense of, you know? dissatisfaction, maybe; not accepting that there might be different powers to play. but then at the same time I feel for them because it's not a nice feeling to have your application rejected for unknown reasons, right? or their reasons are being added later. FOMATPLAY do you think there is some kind of institutional, institutionalized prejudice that is operating there or? not really. MAGDALENA no I don't think so. I mean I heard, I think poor Estonia I'm going to call it because many structures are our institutions have been protected by Estonia, you know? because they couldn't eneter. but again I'm trying to understand because, you know? the situation is very fragile; something I saw some in the Turkish news with Estonians application like a lot of them being rejected or a lot of applications being made so something... Maybe people were trying to get to the Estonian border to get to other countries and they tried to kind of um invading-, maybe they're more sensitive to the topic. um I know there are lots of Turkish people coming in. there, they live here, they work here it happens. There was the coup in 2015-14, I can't remember being here at the moment um. So I know a lot of academicians, you know? scholars, they moved to Turkey. so, you know? I am, I know that they functioned in the European Union quite well but I think instead maybe the amount of people, maybe they really-, do yeah in the current circumstances, like in the UK it was Brexit... but again it's the the reason for the rejection that is also causing like kind of discomfort; like for my husband it was uh not not only house; and for them it was, I can't remember now what they wrote, I think that they didn't provide a substantial reason to travel even though the travel was on the basis of.. there was a conference in Estonia, I guess. And they had the date, you know? the invitation from the conference body etc. um but that was the reason that was provided. so that gave them the feeling of, you know? disappointment FOMATPLAY okay. what else did you think of Brexit when it happened? Did it affect you in all the ways, apart from this? MAGDALENA um, I mean, from my brother, because he moved there, he lived there in Brighton um... I know, you know? it caused some difficulties for, for those residents that didn't have natural nationality and they had to deal with the documentation there: the new processes and, you know? because it was a new thing, new situation and the processes were also sometimes unknown to the clerks etc. for me, I'm still... you know? I don't have problems crossing the border, I don't think I need the visa; I think that's still the case. we can... um the problem that I faced was work because I wanted to do like a summer period working in the UK, I got, I had an interview; I got accepted at the university of Notthingam, it was one month, one and a half month kind of um... um because there was this warning "eligible for work"; and my understanding was that yes, I can apply. there is nothing in my criminal record or um wherever that would prevent me from applying for the work. but the way they kind of put it forward is that you already have the work permit, and you already can work in the UK. so I was a little bit pushing... is there I guess because I was trying to tell them yes okay I don't have... I think it's called skill skill visa... yeah kind of skills basically... like you you can go to the UK now for I think in limited periods of time and deliver certain type of work but you require sponsorship. so there's an invitation coming from an institution, or employer, any kind of an employer. I make sure they have to pay for it as well. they have to, you know? make an extra expenses but um but I even said I would pay for the entire visa everything but they told me no you really need to have a work permit in order to come and work with us. so that was kind of difficult maybe that I have faced personally. which was a bit of a bummer because I felt like oh yes, that's a nice experience; that'd been nice experience for me. but it didn't work out. And I had worked in UK prior when I was a student I went there to work in a hotel and there wasn't an issue apart from the Home Office registration. um yeah FOMATPLAY okay um and what memories do you have about the Brexit moment? so when you heard that most of the voters..? FOMATPLAY I felt sad, I felt that it was a wrongly informed decision; I thought that the public will sway into thinking that it would provide some kind of a solution to a problem that, I think, comes within in the UK rather than from the outside. and um yeah as strange as it may sound like I felt, I felt sad because I felt like that shouldn't have happened. Even because they were on the different terms, they still had some control over their borders, I guess. it wasn't like a full Shengen participation, but yeah... I, I, I felt sad, disappointed, kind of... and we actually had a friend, like, he's from the UK, he's still with us, working with us; and he said he cried. The announcement, so... I know it hits some of them pretty hard, especially that it was a very close call; it was like 51-49, I guess. 52-48 um but you know? at the end of the day it's a sovereign country and that's the way that they decided for themselves. FOMATPLAY hmm okay um... maybe something else about your belonging. so where do you feel you belong? or where do you feel your home is? MAGDALENA this is a tough one. I think... when I have contact with my family; not necessarily-, sometimes being with them, cause that's hard, because of the employment situation. Being next to my husband; cause I think we kind of create the bond that kind of, you know? wherever we are the home is. but I can see a very easily change because of the current economic situation. so I'm always kind of worried about, you know? the economic situation is going to be too tough on us that, you know? it will kind of affect us a lot, as a unit. I am in a place when I feel safe and appreciated and valued and hurt. I think, that is it and also, you know? I need to have a kind of a sense of connection and historical, I don't know, artistic, communal... um because I used to travel around the Middle East when I was students, quite a lot. I went to kind of Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt and I felt quite well there. I don't-; but, you know, these were short stays so I cannot say um too much about that um because I felt some kind of a... because of my interest. I think I felt that connection a little bit but I don't know if that wouldn't happen because.. you know with Turkey I don't have much interest in that; like personal curiosity is not really involved in it; because I was never interested in Turkish language, Turkish culture. it was a little bit bought upon me; so kind of not that faith, let's say. um so I I never felt that connection with that. but yeah I think it's family, family aspect in a sense of, you know? the ideas that I mentioned like being valued, secure, appreciated, um understood. um yeah FOMATPLAY mm hmm and um something that maybe involves your... um sort of a sense of being in Turkey or in Europe. so um how active do you feel you are when you are in Turkey in terms of uh your social contribution to the country? MAGDALENA In Turkey, none. almost zero. I tried... okay so I am... I tried, in terms of like NGOs, so kind of social work; but then I got a bit scared because of... there was a situation like when you are a foreigner in protest in Turkey, you are immediately, like, labeled as conspirator and you are an agent of the European country and try to change the course of politics in Turkey. so I know some people were... despite these kind of labels, they still were pursuing their activism in Turkey. but I kind of... I decided that it would be too big of a threat for myself and family so um I thought that that that wouldn't work; and I thought about working with migrants, with Syrians, you know? When the war started; but then I thought, again, I might get myself into some shaky grounds and just um... jeopardize my, my security there. Cause, you know, I'm on a kind of work for my visa residency permit so it's very easy to cancel these things um... even though I am married to a national. At the beginning when when I was a student, as ERASMUS sudent, I was quite social, yes. but then because of certain kind of events happening I decided that the work, the social aspect of work is enough for me. I'm okay like with-, without engaging too much, let's say. Because I I also thought that um it might cause attention, or me feeling uneasy, or there might be some lack of understanding and maybe I will, again, kind of letting some parts of me out that I wouldn't like to counsel, let's say. and, you know, in Turkey you have those groups which are more kind of weird thinking, groups that, which are more conservative as in every country but um... I know these are like things maybe that also put me off. like I used to work for this family of lawyers; I would teach them English, at the very beginning. and they said um "you know, you're a foreigner. we are surprised that your future husband", because we were kind of in a partnership at that time, uh "we are surprised that um, you were, you were, you were actually accepted to the family because even though we are this European kind of forward thinking family and we are lawyers, well educated, we wouldn't have that. or because you lived in Turkey you have to behave like a Turk". FOMATPLAY it's very strong. MAGDALENA it's very..yeah. So, I felt again, like a little bit... like understanding for the Constitution, for the law; I cannot break the law. I cannot, you know? behave in an unruly matter and I have to respect the workplace and I have to kind of represent my workplace in a certain way because... but, but it sticks to these kind of things... FOMATPLAY um okay maybe the last two questions. I think I will just... I could go on forever with you. but... it was very pleasant to um be here, listening to you. um so how do you, how have you experienced freedom of movement in Europe? and also outside of Europe? since you have this kind of experiences. MAGDALENA so within the borders just, you know? travelling around, not not having to um being questioned at the border... because I also see like, when it's my husband and it's-, when it's me. so when he crosses or I cross or the customs agent they see we have a relationship. so one time it was in Slovenia; they took us in together. because they saw like we were a little bit like, we were happy, you know? kind of feeling like a young couple at the time and, you know? everything was okay; we had the visa and we took it from the polish consolate, in Instambul for him and... He saw that we had a relationship and that we were a little bit like.. I mean, I don't know. the way we behaved when we were too happy at the time so he kind of took us into the room and started checking the system. I think, you know, it was quick and I didn't make a big deal out of it and I didn't make much of it because it can happen. like I also accept that sometimes, you know? these things can happen at the border and... but other than that, you know? it's just, you know? just moving from one country to another and it's quite free, pleasant. um outside, so... In Turkey, I try to follow the rules, not to cause problems with the borders and making sure that, you know? the deadlines are met. one time I didn't, I overdid my stay. but it wasn't my fault. there was this issue with my word documents. they weren't processed on time; and it was election time in Turkey as well so there was this issue that, you know? suddenly... and just was thrown to the system. so I was left without insurance, without the work permit, without the residence permit. I tried to reach my end of the consolate; I tried to talk to my employer. of course I couldn't stay working because, you know? without permit you can't stay at the... and the consulate, they told me that, you know? if they catch you, they catch you; see you at the border detention center. but then it's kind of... so I was also asking around people, you know? instructors, teachers with similar experiences; but in the end it worked out well. I think they started a bit stricter but at that time you paid some kind of a fine for each day that you overstayed; so I paid that fine and then I crossed the border for one day and then came back. we chose the airport because we thought it would be a little bit better to get the visa touristic visa; um it was an issue because it normally they don't allow you to do it in 24 hours like you should stay outside the Turkey more than 24 hours; um but since I had I collected a lot of documents, you know? to show the customs and I said, you know? "this happened, this happened. this is a really kind of unusual situation for me. it was kinda out of our control". um so so so we got a bit of a help there um. but normally there's no issue. now I have like two permits. one from work, one individually because I just thought that um on the basis that I'm married to a national, because I thought that it would be safer for me, because I lose my job, for example. and I would still need to stay. because I think that after you, your work permit is constantly have like 2 weeks to manage your situation. it's either like either leaving or, you know, applying for another type of visa. I mean the worst experience I've had I think it was in the STATES. that was yeah FOMATPLAY okay um... okay so we have reached the edn of the interview and now I'm gonna ask you um a set of short questions you can answer uh in one sentence, if you want. yeah? so how would you sum up your um freedom of movement experience across the EU so far? MAGDALENA I think without any issues and fears, or concerns prior to the travel. FOMATPLAY um how would you feel if your freedom of movement was removed? MAGDALENA yeah I think disappointed, crushed and um I will feel it would be unjustified. FOMATPLAY uh where's home and where do you feel you belong? MAGDALENA um yeah next to my family and the place where I feel that I am being valued and appreciated and heard and that I I feel like I've Learned something from that experience. FOMATPLAY mm hmm um how do you feel in Italy? MAGDALENA I feel welcome, I feel um a part of a community. FOMATPLAY and what do you miss the most um of Poland, your home country? MAGDALENA seeing my family; being there for them. when there is a problem, or an issue, deal with um places that I have feelings and memories from. FOMATPLAY how do you feel in Turkey? MAGDALENA I feel scared. FOMATPLAY would you take the same decisions today? why? why not? MAGDALENA about the? FOMATPLAY everything, yes. Moving... MAGDALENA on a personal level, in terms of meeting my husband, I would make the decision. On a personal level, in terms of me as a perso, professionally,I don't think... FOMATPLAY and who are you? could you define yourself using three or four words? MAGDALENA member of my family. I was shaped by my family and I represent the values and the struggles and the bad sides of my family; as well the good sides of my family. um I feel European and I wouldn't like to forget that part of me. and I think that's now a stage in my life that I have to.. FOMATPLAY okay, wonderful! thank you Magda for sharing this with us.